Sad story

[greencom]

Yahoo just had a news story about a 14 year old girl that was so horribly bulllied at school that she commited suicide. She had complained to school officials earlier but it was not addressed, now it's too late. Where do school kids learn to be so cruel, or is it just an ugly natural part of human nature. Some one must be held accountable for this!!!!

[Earl]

Hi, greencom. I can only offer my opinions in response to this very sad item in the news. I don't believe that cruelty is inherent in human nature in the sense that I don't believe that anyone is born cruel, but we are born selfish. So, empathy and compassion have to be taught and learned, as well as a sense of justice (which the 4chan trolls know nothing about). I know there's always been bullying, but there seems to be more of it now. At least that's what I've heard. There undeniably has been a moral decline in this country, and we're now seeing some fruits of this trend. And as far as disciplining their children is concerned, some parents are wimps. But when the parents themselves have low moral standards, we should not be surprised at the result of their children's upbringing. I wish I had something profound to say.

[greencom]

Earl,
Yes, what the kids learn at home (or don't learn at home) is what shapes them for the most part I believe. I'm sure that the parents of the nasty little jerks that were at fault will deny that their child would ever do anything like that. I'm sure that when it's all over with this story, nobody will be punished and the bullying will continue as before. I believe that society looks upon the bullys as leaders and the victims as weak and deserving of it. I'm sure almost all jocks feel this way.

[Fat Man]

Earl,
Yes, what the kids learn at home (or don't learn at home) is what shapes them for the most part I believe. I'm sure that the parents of the nasty little jerks that were at fault will deny that their child would ever do anything like that. I'm sure that when it's all over with this story, nobody will be punished and the bullying will continue as before. I believe that society looks upon the bullys as leaders and the victims as weak and deserving of it. I'm sure almost all jocks feel this way.

Yeah! Our society looks up to bullies who can't read or write beyond the second grade level because their good at sports, while looking down on the good students who study hard in school to get high grades as being weak and deserving of bullying.

But then, most of society here in the USA believes the universe is only 6000 years old, made in 6 days, that animals magically popped up out of the earth, and then, they give a tenth part of their incomes to Pat Robert's 700 Club.

These are the people who hate science and math and kids who study hard in school, love sports and look up to ignorant and illiterate jocks and supports bullying.

It's actually a new Inquisition.

[Earl]

Fat Man, you are my friend; but I must object. First of all, bullies come in all sizes and shapes; and some of them are girls. Some bullies are not good at sports. And some bullies are SMART. If all bullies were dumb, do you think there would be any dictators? Members of the Nazi SS -- those who were given the orders to carry out the "final solution of the Jewish problem" (not to mention eliminating the mentally retarded, Freemasons, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses and other pacifists) -- included a disproportionately high percent of holders of doctorate's degrees.

I don't deny that many people subscribe to the "blame the victim" mentality and that nonathletic students who excel academically are often overshadowed and overlooked at the sports-centric high schools of this country. (By the way, HugeFanOfBadReligion, is this also true of many high schools in Canada?) But I strongly reject your contention that this sorry attitude is linked to the belief that the Bible is the word of God. In fact, Fat Man, where did social Darwinism come from? Who was it who spoke of "survival of the fittest" (not that he would have necessarily condoned bullying); and, on the other hand, who was it who taught we should treat others the way we want to be treated? Which of these two philosophies is likely to encourage bullying, and which is more likely to end it? In a recent telephone conversation with a woman who is of our parents' generation, I was talking to her about the bullying that takes place in boys' P.E. classes; and she made some comment about "the natural cruelty of boys," as if even physical bullying is no big deal. No doubt you would say she was a contributor to Pat Robertson's 700 Club. WRONG! She is not a believer in the Bible, and she believes in the theory of evolution. She also happens to be a big Obama supporter. I guess her liberalism doesn't extend to nonathletic boys being bullied in P.E.

Yes, I believe in the Genesis account of creation *gasp* , as do all of my in-laws. Regarding the claim that those of us who believe in the Bible are not very smart and hate math and science, all of the members of my wife's family are highly educated. They include mathematicians, engineers, and a doctor who is a leader in his chosen branch of medicine. All of them believe in the Bible, none of them believe in the theory of evolution, and NONE of them support Pat Robertson or ever supported Jerry Falwell when he was alive. None of us would give a dime to Pat Robertson, no matter what the inducement.

[Skul]

It's always sad when someone commits suicide due to bullying... Some people just don't care what damage they do to others...

This thread was moved to Off-Topic because, to my knowledge, it has nothing to do with sports. I'll move it back if I hear otherwise.

[greencom]

Skul,
Actually I meant it to show the damage bullying does, like the bullying practiced by the sports types upon their victims. I should have began the thread by mentioning that.

[Nick]

Is this the one about that woman who flirted and then rejected a girl over the course of a day...? The one where the girl totally overreacted and killed herself? And we're supposed to feel sorry for?

And Greencom, I'm sure someone will get in trouble if this is a different one. The woman who rejected a girl over myspace got sent to prison, which was absurd.

[Nick]

Fat Man, you are my friend; but I must object. First of all, bullies come in all sizes and shapes; and some of them are girls. Some bullies are not good at sports. And some bullies are SMART. If all bullies were dumb, do you think there would be any dictators? Members of the Nazi SS -- those who were given the orders to carry out the "final solution of the Jewish problem" (not to mention eliminating the mentally retarded, Freemasons, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses and other pacifists) -- included a disproportionately high percent of holders of doctorate's degrees.

I don't deny that many people subscribe to the "blame the victim" mentality and that nonathletic students who excel academically are often overshadowed and overlooked at the sports-centric high schools of this country. (By the way, HugeFanOfBadReligion, is this also true of many high schools in Canada?) But I strongly reject your contention that this sorry attitude is linked to the belief that the Bible is the word of God. In fact, Fat Man, where did social Darwinism come from? Who was it who spoke of "survival of the fittest" (not that he would have necessarily condoned bullying); and, on the other hand, who was it who taught we should treat others the way we want to be treated? Which of these two philosophies is likely to encourage bullying, and which is more likely to end it? In a recent telephone conversation with a woman who is of our parents' generation, I was talking to her about the bullying that takes place in boys' P.E. classes; and she made some comment about "the natural cruelty of boys," as if even physical bullying is no big deal. No doubt you would say she was a contributor to Pat Robertson's 700 Club. WRONG! She is not a believer in the Bible, and she believes in the theory of evolution. She also happens to be a big Obama supporter. I guess her liberalism doesn't extend to nonathletic boys being bullied in P.E.

Yes, I believe in the Genesis account of creation *gasp* , as do all of my in-laws. Regarding the claim that those of us who believe in the Bible are not very smart and hate math and science, all of the members of my wife's family are highly educated. They include mathematicians, engineers, and a doctor who is a leader in his chosen branch of medicine. All of them believe in the Bible, none of them believe in the theory of evolution, and NONE of them support Pat Robertson or ever supported Jerry Falwell when he was alive. None of us would give a dime to Pat Robertson, no matter what the inducement.

...Waitwaitwaitwait... You don't believe in evolution? I believe in the bible too, but come on, not evolution?

And also, god made weed, bro.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

I don't deny that many people subscribe to the "blame the victim" mentality and that nonathletic students who excel academically are often overshadowed and overlooked at the sports-centric high schools of this country. (By the way, HugeFanOfBadReligion, is this also true of many high schools in Canada?) But I strongly reject your contention that this sorry attitude is linked to the belief that the Bible is the word of God.

Yes, this often does happen in Canada. Students in Canada act just like students in the US (then again, I've never been to a school in the US). I'm lucky that I don't go to the school that is a bit farther up the road from my highschool, as it is basically a sports school. The entire school is based on sports, and academics is their second highest concern at best. Sports are definitely, by far, the highest concern at that school, by both teachers and students. If you don't play sports there, you are pretty much screwed.

I don't agree with Fat Man that bullying by the jocks is the result of the literal representation of the Bible, however, I have often been called terms such as faggot, dumbass, jew, along with many other insults, along with threats of death and eternal damnation because I'm an atheist. While sports-related bullying has easily been my worst problem with bullying, many other factors have caused me to be a victim of bullying. There is obviously a huge problem with people accepting people's beliefs and disbeliefs, not just with kids, but with grown adults, and we must learn to accept other people before the world is screwed over.

[Earl]

I don't agree with Fat Man that bullying by the jocks is the result of the literal representation of the Bible, ...

Thank you.

... however, I have often been called terms such as faggot, dumbass, jew, along with many other insults, along with threats of death and eternal damnation because I'm an atheist. While sports-related bullying has easily been my worst problem with bullying, many other factors have caused me to be a victim of bullying. There is obviously a huge problem with people accepting people's beliefs and disbeliefs, not just with kids, but with grown adults, and we must learn to accept other people before the world is screwed over.

Although I'm not an atheist, I'm appalled at religious people for bullying you simply because you happen to be one. They are being self-righteous and hypocritical. Where is their compassion? Have any of them ever asked you why you're an atheist? Probably not. These are the sort of people who make themselves feel better about themselves by tearing others down. Bullying is wrong, regardless of who is bullied. As a Christian I know that bullying is a sin in the eyes of God. You would think these people had never heard of the Golden Rule (Matthew 7:12). I happen to have a close friend who is an atheist to whom I am personally indebted for helping me with a personal problem I had when I was younger. Ironically (considering the subject of this website), he also played football at the university where he got his degree in sociology.

Yes, I believe in the Genesis account of creation *gasp* ...

...Waitwaitwaitwait... You don't believe in evolution? I believe in the bible too, but come on, not evolution?

If the Genesis account of creation is in doubt, then there really is no point in believing the rest of the Bible. Without the account of Adam and Eve, there is no record of how sin came into the world and the fall of man, which necessitated the need for God to carry out a scheme of redemption. Jesus and the writers of the New Testament apparently accepted the creation account literally and did not regard it as being allegorical. In his teaching on marriage and divorce (Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-12), Jesus actually quoted from it (Genesis 1:27; 2:23, 24). Incidentally, while the flood of Genesis 6 through 8 obviously took place after the creation, the apostle Peter accepted the Genesis account as well (1 Peter 3:20). Of course, so did the other apostles, needless to say.

And also, god made weed, bro.

God spoke arsenic into existence, along with everything else. Does that mean we should ingest this element?

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Although I'm not an atheist, I'm appalled at religious people for bullying you simply because you happen to be one. They are being self-righteous and hypocritical. Where is their compassion? Have any of them ever asked you why you're an atheist? Probably not. These are the sort of people who make themselves feel better about themselves by tearing others down. Bullying is wrong, regardless of who is bullied. As a Christian I know that bullying is a sin in the eyes of God. You would think these people had never heard of the Golden Rule (Matthew 7:12). I happen to have a friend who is an atheist to whom I am personally indebted for helping me with a personal problem I had when I was younger. Ironically (considering the subject of this website), he also played football at the university where he got his degree in sociology.

No, none of them asked why I'm an atheist, however they likely would have laughed at why I am an atheist, as it involves a story involving one of my friends who died. I first began doubting my religious upbringing when my friend died when he was only 9 years old, after he had battled cancer for several years, which began as a brain tumor. He made it through the brain tumor, but about a year later he was diagnosed with cancer in his lower abdomen, and was in a coma for a long period of time. Eventually, he died at the age of 9. This caused me to doubt my beliefs because I knew him from the church I went to, and his family was strongly religious, and they couldn't have possibly done anything against their beliefs that would have brought such a tragedy. They likely would have just tried to provoke me if I told them that my friend died, because they would have known it would get on my nerves to make fun of a dead friend. These people didn't begin to bully me because I was an atheist, they were often the jocks who made fun of me because I was nonathletic. My atheism was just something to make fun of, they already would insult and beat me before they knew I was an atheist. I'm sure they had friends who were atheists, but my disbeliefs were just something different from them for them to make fun of me. They are simply opportunists, and they take any chance they can to make fun of someone they don't like.

[sparkle]

Girls straight up can be MEAN BITCHES and ur crazy if u think a pretty girl can't do that.

[Earl]

HugeFanOfBadReligion, I am very sad to hear about the death of your childhood friend. I know how you feel. I am a middle-aged man, which means that I have experienced grief a number of times. Iâ??ve experienced the loss of both of my parents, several close relatives, and my best friend. Whether death comes suddenly to a loved one or the death is expected, the grief is the same. My best friend, whom I had known since we were seniors in high school, died just last year. No doubt I will lose more friends and loved ones in the years to come, which is a universal experience for just about everyone. Of course, your friendâ??s parents did nothing that caused him to die. As the old saying goes, bad things do happen to good people. The death of an innocent child is particularly hard to bear.

I have been impressed by the thoughtfulness you have shown in your posts, and you apparently are
fair-minded as well. As Iâ??ve stated previously, I am amazed that jocks would pick on you (or any other guy) for not being athletically inclined for at least two reasons: (1) There have been many nonathletic men who have shown great courage, and (2) Participating in sports does not prevent homosexuality. Homosexual men have always participated in rough contact sports, just as they have participated in just about every other realm of human activity. These jocks are showing just how incredibly ignorant they are. How can anyone be so ill-informed? Where have they been? I mean, donâ??t confuse them with the facts. Iâ??m amazed that anyone can deny the veracity of these two points.

You bring up what may be the strongest argument against the existence of God: the problem of human suffering. Please bear with my belief in God while I make the following observation: One reason why there is so much tragedy in the world is because God gave human beings the ability to choose between good and evil. If He had not given us this ability, we would be nothing more than robots and even worse off than animals. If we could not choose, then we would not be able to truly worship Him. Unfortunately, just about every person who has ever lived has chosen to do evil (some more often than others, of
course) -- not because we are born evil, but because we are weak. I wish I had more to say at this time. You have raised a difficult issue. There are compelling arguments for the existence of God, which I could elucidate; but more needs to be said to address the issue of human suffering as it relates to the question of whether there is a God. I hope that I will have more to say on this issue in another post. Sorry that I wasnâ??t able to respond sooner.