Egypt and Middle-East protests - your views.

[Lewis]

Gaddafi has lost control of control of Western Libya, it looks like a civil war could occur.

[i_like_1981]

Gaddafi has lost control of control of Western Libya, it looks like a civil war could occur.

I thought it was the East he had lost control over. Nonetheless, from what I've been hearing, civil war is very likely. That man is only going to go down if somebody kills him. To be honest, having been in power that long, it's no wonder he's so unwilling to buckle to the protesters' demands. I can definitely see a civil war occurring. The problem is, from what I hear, the protesters have no real leader; I don't think there's anyone they definitely stand behind as a replacement for Gaddafi. They want to get rid of him, but nobody is to know what comes next. Nonetheless, I shall be keeping my attention on this situation.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[i_like_1981]

Has anyone else heard about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12603259

Make of this what you will. I have changed the title of this thread to accommodate news of protests happening in other countries around the region - the main focus is on Libya now, and who knows where next.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Lewis]

Gaddafi has lost control of control of Western Libya, it looks like a civil war could occur.

I thought it was the East he had lost control over. Nonetheless, from what I've been hearing, civil war is very likely. That man is only going to go down if somebody kills him. To be honest, having been in power that long, it's no wonder he's so unwilling to buckle to the protesters' demands. I can definitely see a civil war occurring. The problem is, from what I hear, the protesters have no real leader; I don't think there's anyone they definitely stand behind as a replacement for Gaddafi. They want to get rid of him, but nobody is to know what comes next. Nonetheless, I shall be keeping my attention on this situation.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

I meant that the West was no longer stable for Gaddafi (sorry about the confusion), but it is interesting to see in the East that they are using the flags of the pre-Gaddafi regime.

Gaddafi is losing the plot, I saw his son on the news the other day saying that he'd fight to the bitter end, clearly the man has lost touch with reality (even Blair told him to go)!

[i_like_1981]

Gaddafi is losing the plot, I saw his son on the news the other day saying that he'd fight to the bitter end, clearly the man has lost touch with reality (even Blair told him to go)!

Oh, I can be sure that eventually, Gaddafi is going to go. He may rant and rave about staying in Libya until death now but he may be using that as a deceptive facade to distract people's attention so he can secretly get his fortunes out of the country. That's what Mubarak did, but I think that the foreign banks have now frozen his assets. I can see Gaddafi either taking his own life when the pressure gets too high, being taken out by one of his own men or just fleeing the scene when he has managed to pocket all he can. But when he goes, there will be a power vacuum that needs to be filled and I don't know how that will happen in such a divided and strife-ridden place.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[ChrisOH]

Oh, I can be sure that eventually, Gaddafi is going to go. He may rant and rave about staying in Libya until death now but he may be using that as a deceptive facade to distract people's attention so he can secretly get his fortunes out of the country. That's what Mubarak did, but I think that the foreign banks have now frozen his assets. I can see Gaddafi either taking his own life when the pressure gets too high, being taken out by one of his own men or just fleeing the scene when he has managed to pocket all he can. But when he goes, there will be a power vacuum that needs to be filled and I don't know how that will happen in such a divided and strife-ridden place.

I think that was the biggest goof that Bush and the US military made in Iraq when they overthrew Saddam Hussein -- there was no planning for just who would fill the vacuum created by the sudden removal of an authoritarian ruler. Unfortunately, such situations are ripe for takeovers by extremists and future dictators who are just as bad, if not worse, than the one they kicked out. The same thing happened in the Balkan states after Communism fell -- all the old hatreds and rivalries, with no artificial controls to hold them back, bubbled to the surface again.

[i_like_1981]

I think that was the biggest goof that Bush and the US military made in Iraq when they overthrew Saddam Hussein -- there was no planning for just who would fill the vacuum created by the sudden removal of an authoritarian ruler. Unfortunately, such situations are ripe for takeovers by extremists and future dictators who are just as bad, if not worse, than the one they kicked out. The same thing happened in the Balkan states after Communism fell -- all the old hatreds and rivalries, with no artificial controls to hold them back, bubbled to the surface again.

Yes, this is always a problem. I also heard recently that the new Tunisian prime minister, who came to power shortly after the despised president fled, has been forced to resign - it seems that although the revolutions have disposed of the dictators, these countries have a long way to go before stability is achieved. But I see that the Egypt military are being pressurised by the protesters into gradually bringing more and more reforms into place, so hopefully democracy will be achieved there eventually. We just need to see how the presidential elections there turn out when they finally happen...

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Lewis]

Libya unrest: UK diplomatic team released by rebels

A British diplomatic team, including six soldiers believed to be SAS, have been freed two days after being detained in eastern Libya.

The men are understood to have left Benghazi bound for Malta on board the Royal Navy frigate HMS Cumberland.

It is thought the special forces soldiers were with a diplomat who was making contact with opposition leaders.

Witnesses said the men were detained by rebels after arriving near Benghazi in a helicopter early on Friday morning.

They were held after going to an agricultural compound when Libyan security guards found they were carrying arms, ammunition, explosives, maps and passports from at least four different nationalities, witnesses told the BBC.

The witnesses said the men had denied they were carrying weapons.

In a statement on Sunday, Foreign Secretary William Hague said the team, part of efforts to make contact with opposition leaders amid the unrest in Libya, had "experienced difficulties, which have now been satisfactorily resolved".
'Embarrassing'

He added: "We intend, in consultation with the opposition, to send a further team to strengthen our dialogue in due course.

"This diplomatic effort is part of the UK's wider work on Libya, including our ongoing humanitarian support.

"We continue to press for [Libyan leader Muammar] Gaddafi to step down and we will work with the international community to support the legitimate ambitions of the Libyan people."

Also on Sunday, Libyan State TV broadcast what it described as a recording of a phone call between Britain's ambassador to Libya, Richard Northern, and a rebel spokesman, in which they discussed the British team's situation.

On the recording, Mr Northern explains a team was in eastern Libya to prepare the way for a British humanitarian mission.

He then asks a senior opposition figure to intervene in what he calls a "misunderstanding".

The spokesman responds: "They made a big mistake, coming with a helicopter in an open area."

Mr Northern then says: "I didn't know how they were coming."

The recording has not been verified, but it is known that Britain had been negotiating the release of its team.

The BBC's Jon Leyne, who is in Benghazi, says the British mission appeared to have been an "embarrassing miscalculation".

He said the UK was "obviously unaware of the reaction likely to be provoked in this tense situation by a group of armed men arriving on a helicopter, in the dead of night".
No-fly zone

Earlier, Prime Minister David Cameron reiterated calls for Col Gaddafi to step down.

The Libyan leader is currently attempting to reassert control over the country from rebels who have taken much of the east of the country as well as some towns closer to Tripoli, in the west.

The UN estimates that more than 1,000 people have died in the unrest there, which follows public protests in neighbouring Tunisia and Egypt that saw their presidents overthrown.

Meanwhile, Defence Secretary Liam Fox indicated that a military no-fly zone over Libya remained a possibility, saying the issue would be discussed at a meeting of Nato defence ministers later this week.

"If we (Nato) were to decide on a no-fly zone, there would be a number of options. Would it be the whole of Libya, would it just be the population centres that we focused on?" he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12660163

[Lewis]

Libya: UN backs action against Colonel Gaddafi

The UN Security Council has backed a no-fly zone over Libya and "all necessary measures" short of an invasion "to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas".

The UK, France and Lebanon proposed the council resolution, with US support.

Meeting in New York, the 15-member body voted 10-0 in favour, with five abstentions.

Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces have recently retaken several towns seized by rebels in an uprising.

Loyalist forces are threatening the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, home to a million people.

Earlier reports suggested that if the resolution were passed, air attacks on Col Gaddafi's forces by the British and French air forces could begin within hours.

It is not thought that the US would be involved in the first strikes, but the British and French are likely to get logistical backup from Arab allies.

Russia and China - which often oppose the use of force against a sovereign country as they believe it sets a dangerous precedent - abstained rather than using their power of veto as permanent members. Germany, India and Brazil also abstained.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe, introducing the resolution, said: "In Libya, for a number of weeks the people's will has been shot down... by Colonel Gaddafi who is attacking his own people.

"We cannot let these warmongers do this, we cannot abandon civilians."

He added: "We should not arrive too late."

The US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, said: "This resolution should send a strong message to Colonel Gaddafi and his regime that the violence must stop, the killing must stop and the people of Libya must be protected and have the opportunity to express themselves freely."

British ambassador to the UN, Sir Mark Lyall Grant, said: "The international community has come together in deploring the actions of the Gaddafi regime and demanding that the regime end this violence against the Libyan people." He said the UK was "ready to shoulder our responsibility".

Earlier on Thursday, addressing the people of Benghazi, the rebels' main stronghold, Col Gaddafi said his troops were coming "tonight" and there would be "no mercy".

He told rebels to go home, adding that "whoever lays down his weapons" would be pardoned.

Rebel leaders replied by saying their forces would stand firm and not be deterred by Col Gaddafi's threats.

Shortly before the UN vote on Thursday, anti-aircraft fire and explosions were heard in Benghazi.
'Amnesty'

The Libyan military has warned that any foreign operations against Libya will expose all maritime and air navigation in the Mediterranean Sea to danger, state TV reports.

"All civilian and military activities will be the target of a Libyan counter-attack. The Mediterranean Sea will be in serious danger not only in the short term but also in the long term," a screen caption said.

In other developments:

* Forces loyal to Col Gaddafi reportedly launched their first air attacks on Benghazi, targeting the airport at Benina
* Col Gaddafi's forces attacked the rebel-held town of Ajdabiya, a key objective before launching a ground assault on Benghazi, but rebels deployed tanks, artillery and a helicopter to repel the assaulthtt
* Libyan state television reported that the city of Misrata was almost entirely under government control, but rebels and residents in the city denied this
* Official Libyan news agency Jana reported that government forces would cease military operations from midnight on Sunday to give rebels the opportunity to hand over their weapons and "benefit from the decision on general amnesty"

Following the toppling of the long-time leaders of neighbouring Tunisia and Egypt earlier this year, Libyan protesters started to demand that Col Gaddafi step down after 42 years of autocratic rule. They quickly seized much of eastern Libya.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12781009

[i_like_1981]

It looks as though the West are beginning to take action in Libya now. Our country seems to be sending in support for the rebels and I hear that France and the USA are going to do the same. One can really only wonder where it's going to go now, but if Gaddafi's usual behaviour patterns are anything to go by, I see the intensity of the situation rising even further. We shall see what happens over the coming days...

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Lewis]

Libyan rebels prepare to attack Sirte after Nato raids

Tanks, heavy artillery and rocket launchers abandoned by fleeing Gaddafi forces are being assembled for attack

Rebel units were massing for an attack on Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's birthplace, on Friday after Nato warplanes conducted intensive bombing raids to weaken one of the last major redoubts controlled by the ousted regime.

On the road to Sirte from Misrata, tanks, heavy artillery and rocket launchers abandoned by fleeing government forces were being assembled for the attack.

Rebels said a British and French special forces team was helping co-ordinate the assault, in which Misrata-based units will push eastwards to meet forces from Benghazi fighting their way westwards.

As the National Transitional Council (NTC) attempted to establish itself in Tripoli, setting up offices and holding a press conference, its claims to complete authority were undermined by skirmishes with Gaddafi loyalists and the failure to find the ousted Libyan leader or his sons.

The continued resistance of traditional Gaddafi strongholds like Sirte has also prevented the NTC from opening the coastal road â?? a principal artery of Libyan economic life â?? and uniting the main population centres, and it has yet to conquer the southern city of Sebha, reportedly home to a vast arsenal of weaponry.

NTC attempts to broker a negotiated surrender by Gaddafi forces and loyalist tribes appeared to be failingon Friday, and Nato stepped up its barrage on stockpiled weapons in the town. Nato planes targeted 29 vehicles with mounted weapons, and British Tornado aircraft launched a missile attack on a large underground command bunker.

Britain is also seeking approval from the UN security council to release about $1.6bn (£1bn) in Libyan bank notes printed in the UK but impounded in March, Associated Press reported. The money is needed to help the rebel government pay its public sector workers.

Rebel fighters are commuting every day to the front line in what is a often family affair. Typically, one brother will join his brigade in Tripoli or outside Sirte while the other will stay on checkpoint duty in Misrata, swapping over the following day.

"We keep going," said Abdullah Maiteeg, a former oil engineer, who was preparing to leave for Tripoli to replace his own brother fighting there. He said the priority was to find Gaddafi. "We have to get the G-dog," he said. "I don't stop fighting until I see him."

Misrata-based rebels have also reached the outskirts of Beni Walid, 100 miles south-west, and are attempting to negotiate the surrender its loyalist defenders. They have been involved in some of the bloodiest battles in Tripoli this week, their home-made armoured vehicles much in demand as clashes continue.

As one Gaddafi-run town after another has fallen, there has been mounting concern over the fate of their armouries, after the experience in Iraq where Saddam Hussein's extensive arsenal was used by his supporters to make countless car-bombs to wreak havoc after he fell.

Peter Bouckaert, the emergencies director at Human Rights Watch, returned from Libya in the spring reporting the existence of thousands of shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles in unguarded ammunition dumps around the country. He said he was contacted by western intelligence officials concerned they might fall into the hands of terrorists. Since then Bouckaert said there had been a substantial western and NTC effort to collect up those missiles, mostly Soviet-made Sam-7s.

"My concern is that the western focus on Sam-7s obscures the threat of other munitions, like tank shells and artillery shells which can easily be turned into car bombs," Bouckaert told the Guardian. "The biggest arsenals are under Sebha and Sirte where there are vast amouries. Gaddafi has been on a shopping spree for weapons since he came to power and he has everything you can imagine, from exotic weapons like napalm and recent anti-tank missiles which scattered magnetic mines over a large area, to old world war two mortars and shells."

The regime also had a stockpile of mustard gas which was being monitored by the west but has disappeared. The gas however, has not been been put into artillery, Bouckaert said.

The widespread use of mines has contributed to the casualties among civilians and fighters alike. Misrata's Aleiadat hospital is once again choked with the wounded. With the capital's own hospitals overworked, the dead and injured fighters from Misrata are being driven back home. In two days the hospital has registered 12 dead and more than 40 wounded from street fighting in Tripoli.

When power cuts hit in the early hours of the morning and the emergency generators lacked the power to keep air conditioners working, the lightly wounded were wheeled out into the hospital forecourt for the cool breeze coming in off the sea.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/au ... tack-sirte

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Down goes Gaddafi!