Question about homosexuality

[Safety]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while. Lately I've been thinking a lot about this question and I was wondering if I could get your guy's input on this. I've been having a difficult time finding a genuine argument with this question because a lot of people just look at it as bashing and immediately let their political views intervene. I've already asked this on a few different websites, so I'll just copy and paste my question from there.

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

First of all, I don't intend on bashing them in any way, nor do I intend on turning this into a religious or political argument. I'm just looking to have a stimulating conversation.

Many scientists these days argue that humans are designed mostly for the purpose of reproduction, but how can someone breed if they're not attracted to the opposite sex? Although there are still studies being done to note the differences between hetero and homosexual men and women, some discrepancies that have been pointed out are differences in the brain (gay men have brains similar to women, while lesbian women have brains similar to men) and differences in finger lengths. These findings suggest that homosexuality may be more biological than a choice (But that's another argument), so if we go from there, could we say that homosexuality is a mental disorder or an abnormality? I know that it was previously classified as a mental disorder in the DSM, but was removed in the early 1970s (Possibly to avoid conflict).

I think that homosexuality would technically classify as a mental disorder, although no one will refer to it as such because it is such a sensitive subject.

What do you think?

Completely unrelated question: How do you think a 3.2 GPA is for a first year student? I finished with a 3.2 my freshman year at OSU and I was curious to know if that's good or bad for a first year student? I think it would be a lot higher if not for Spanish. My Spanish classes have been killing me.

Thanks

[recovering_fan]

3.2 is pretty good. Anything above 3.0 is considered good for an undergrad at an AAU school. Another thing people look for when judging how well a student did is what his GPA was within his major. If Spanish isn't part of your major, then your GPA for this year is actually higher than 3.2 in courses that are linked to your major.

As far as homosexuality goes, a book you might want to read (if you haven't already) is Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. The main idea of that book is that a lot of behavioral traits that don't seem like they would lead to someone passing on his genes aren't necessarily "disorders." For example, the trait of extreme altruism, where someone feels the need to charge into battle at the age of 15 and kill himself defending the village (before he can have any children), might seem to be a bit of a disorder. But in a society where heroic risk-taking confers honor on one's entire family, sacrificing one's life for the village might lead to a rise in status for the hero's brothers and sisters, making them more likely to make good matches.

I'd be careful talking about your theories on homosexuality (or race or gender) in mixed company though. As you say, politics gets in the way for most people.

[Fat Man]

I have to go with the scientific evidence on this.

People do not choose to be either straight or homosexual. We're born that way.

I've been listening to Richard Dawkins, and other scientists on this issue, and reading various articles on the subject.

It's has to do with the way our brains are neurologically wired.

I know, that in the light of more recent scientific evidence I have had to change my own personal views on homosexually.

Apparently, about 10% percent of the human race is homosexual, and it has always been that way, and will always be that way.

Also, homosexuality has been observed in other species as well.

Again, I have to go with the science on this.

And no, I don't think homosexuality is a sin, no more than being left-handed.

It's the way our brains have been wired.

Also, I say, that what consenting adults do, is their own business. Notice, that I say, consenting adults.

I'm very much down on pedophilia, straight or gay. Adults should not have sex with children.

[recovering_fan]

Another thing worth noting is that whether a behavior or set of behaviors represents a "disorder" has little to whether it will stop a person from reproducing or not. (According to Wikipedia ). Mostly, "disorders" are sets of behaviors that are considered abnormal within the one's culture. And I also think in order for something to be considered a "disorder", we would actually have to show it harmed others in some way. Clearly homosexuality does not, whereas pedophilia does.

[Fat Man]

I must confess, the first time I heard of Richard Dawkins reference to "The Selfish Gene" I was somewhat apprehensive.

But, on further study, it is not a gene for selfishness per-say, like, something that could be used as a justification for selfishness, because evolution also shows that altruism is also a trait in, not just the human species, but also, in many other species as well.

No, it only means that the gene itself is "selfish" meaning that the gene "wants" to be passed on to the next generation because of some advantage it has.

OK, wrong choice of words here.

I was speaking metaphorically. A gene is not consciously selfish or consciously wants something.

It simply means, that a gene that carries with it some advantage is more likely to get passed down to the next generation, and natural selection works in favor of passing down a particular gene.

For example: some Europeans who's ancestors had been exposed to the Black Plague back in medieval times, those who survived the plague passed down their resistance to the disease to the next generation, and as a result, today, we have some Europeans who are immune to HIV.

It's seems that over the hundreds of thousand of years, the human race has been given a genetic kick in the ass many times over, and in the long run, it has been to our benefit.

Take the sickle cell trait for example: People who have inherited this trait are usually anemic, but they have a high resistance or are immune to malaria.

It's a kind of trade-off. It's better to be anemic than dead!

Of course, there is a more serious form of the trait that is fatal, but otherwise, most people with the sickle cell trait are immune to malaria.

Now, I've gotten a bit off topic here, but genetics does certainly seem to be a factor.

Everything seem to have both and upside and a down side.