What's the worst sport?

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Earl
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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Earl »

Craig Storm wrote:It appears that much of the criticism of sports in these message boards is just for the sake of criticizing sports. They are demonized without valid argument and those who disagree are insulted. Itâ??s a good thing this isnâ??t called a debate forum, because that simply is not what happens here. Itâ??s a shame, because if you have a genuine reason to dislike sports, then itâ??s lost amongst the name-calling and blind, unflinching adherence to the fact that you hate sports. The unwillingness to accept alternate ideas on the subject is simultaneously arrogant and ignorant. Nothing is accomplished.

Sports may have little value, athleticism may contribute very little socially, but they arenâ??t much different from online multiplayer video games. The competitive spirit is apparent in both and there are bullies in both worlds. The characteristics inherent in human nature are the real source of your grief, and I think much of your anger is far too focused on sports, and is therefore possibly misplaced.
I agree that there is a lot of name-calling that goes on in this forum. But name-calling occurs at many other websites as well, regardless of the topic. Not that I mean to justify it. For the sake of having a complete view of the situation, though, you need to check out the blue-letter reactions against this website in the Letters columns. Most of them are filled with unbridled hatred. Check out all the forum posts by Captain America, mikejones, SpeedofLeight (whose signature, by the way, features a rather disgusting pornographic link, in clear violation of the contract that he had to agree to in order to register for this forum), and samdaman (whose avatar, quite appropriately, is that of a cartoon bully). Read all of their posts and tell me that they are not hateful. What about their intolerance, which is clearly undeniable?

By the way, you have to wonder about people who go to websites that they know will offend them. There are any number of political and social movements and groups ranging from the John Birch Society and racist hate groups of different kinds to the Communist Party that I detest, but I donâ??t waste time going to their websites to rail at them.

And as far as us not having a debate here, yes, that is true, unfortunately. But how many of our hateful critics (as opposed to Polite24, who has not been hateful) are willing to engage any of us in a debate? Some, such as Captain America, merely hit and run. They donâ??t stick around, but they do reveal their own bigotry in their hate-filled comments. They wonâ??t accept any challenge to their views. Others, such as Harold, hardly seem to pay any attention to any of our responses. All that the others have done is to constantly engage in name-calling themselves. â??You people are just a bunch of fags!â? If you donâ??t believe me, check it out for yourself. Iâ??ve never seen so much hatred. So, the problem we now have currently is that, first of all, the only opponent we have right now to debate us is Polite24 and, secondly, those who do hate us simply will not engage in a debate with us in a civil manner. The fact is that they are not interested in having a debate.

You say that what we object to is just the dark side of human nature. But the injustice that some of us suffered when we were kids was due to an institution. Those of us who are middle-aged were forced to take sports-centered P.E. that did not promote physical fitness for nonathletic kids. Even those with physical disabilities were forced to take P.E.! For example, when he was four years old, Fat Man was in a car wreck that permanently injured one of his knees. He could not run at all, and could only walk with a limp. Greencom was born without depth perception. They were still forced to take P.E., even though they were handicapped! They were bullied by athletic classmates in their P.E. classes, even though they had no control over not being able to do well in sports. No wonder they donâ??t like sports, and no wonder they are prejudiced against athletes! This was not an issue of human nature; this was an issue of an extremely flawed institution that was based on lies and hypocrisy. Iâ??ve posted on this subject extensively, especially in the â??Letters 2009â? column.

Iâ??m sure there are bullies in the world of online multiplayer video games, but are they given preferential treatment and allowed to bully other students in the hallways of our schools?

Thereâ??s even more I could say, but I will stop for now. One of my daughters just asked me if she could use the computer. Besides, I've got other things to do. I'll check this topic later.
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Craig Storm
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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I suppose the anonymous nature of the internet creates an easy way for cowards who think they're funny to say just about anything. If you disagree, check out my blog, where I do just that! :wink: (Although I don't do it anonymously)

The institutions of P.E and school sports do appear to require severe rethinking, as do many educational and social programs. Many of them favor certain people and neglect others. I think the fault lies in people not taking responsibility for reforming these institutions to learn from mistakes and adapt to a changing society. I think I can see how some people could have such a distaste for institutions which are specifically sports-centered, because those specifically were catalysts for their suffering.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Millhouse wrote:What they are speaking out against is a collective culture of people who are forcing their views on others.
Could you expand on this? I'm not sure I understand what exactly you mean.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Fat Man »

Craig Storm wrote:Those unfortunate and awful circumstances are not a result of the existence of sports, they are the result of people doing evil or thoughtless acts. If sports never existed, the same evil acts would still exist. It's not necessarily sports that ties these incidents together, it's the strong dominating the weak, no insult intended.
Excuse me, but it's mostly sports that is the cause of the evil.

Do we ever hear of members of a Chess Club going around beating up on people who don't like Chess?

NO!!!

In some schools where they still have Astronomy Clubs, Physics Clubs, Chemistry Clubs, and Biology Clubs, etc. etc. (that is, in schools where they're still allowed) do we ever hear of them bullying the other students around who were not interested in the same things?

NO!!!

But for some reason, it is sports that inspire bullying and violence.

That is because (people???) in sports are total morons! They're like animals, and like animals, they do not have the ability to reason. Their shit-for-brains must have defective pre-frontal lobes.

In fact, I seriously doubt if their shit-for-brains even have pre-frontal lobes, a Neo-cortex, or a Limbic System.

No, all they have is the R Complex, the brain stem, just like a reptilian brain!

So, I shall from now on, refer to sports fans and jocks as, The Stem People!

I rest my case!

NEXT CASE!!!
Last edited by Fat Man on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Earl
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Craig Storm wrote:I suppose the anonymous nature of the internet creates an easy way for cowards who think they're funny to say just about anything. If you disagree, check out my blog, where I do just that! :wink: (Although I don't do it anonymously)

The institutions of P.E and school sports do appear to require severe rethinking, as do many educational and social programs. Many of them favor certain people and neglect others. I think the fault lies in people not taking responsibility for reforming these institutions to learn from mistakes and adapt to a changing society. I think I can see how some people could have such a distaste for institutions which are specifically sports-centered, because those specifically were catalysts for their suffering.
Well, my daughter didn't take long; and I have time to make a brief comment. There is a movement to reform P.E. The PE4Life program, which was developed by a P.E. coach named Phil Lawler, actually promotes physical fitness without forcing nonathletes to play sports. This program even places demands on athletes, who aren't always as physically fit as they believe. Those who oppose the reform of P.E. are not self-proclaimed "sports haters," but are many of the boys' P.E. coaches themselves. I dare say that many of them look down on nonathletic boys, anyway. What's truly ironic is that in the P.E. classes that I was forced to take when I was a boy, I actually got very little exercise. I've worked with personal trainers on a bodybuilding program at a health club; so, I know what I was missing when I was a kid. I've gotten more exercise in a single workout session than I ever did in a single year of P.E. The claim was made at the time that the reason why nonathletic kids had to take P.E. was because they were out of shape, but the reality was that no physical fitness programs were offered to them. Weightlifting, which would have been great for me (something I had not heard of), wasn't even mentioned! All that nonathletic boys learned in P.E. was to fear coaches and athlete classmates. (To this day more bullying goes on in traditional sports-centered P.E. classes than in any academic class. In contrast, the PE4Life program has been shown to actually reduce bullying.) There was Remedial Math and Remedial English, but no Remedial P.E.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Fat Man wrote:That is because (people???) in sports are total morons! They're like animals, and like animals, they do not have the ability to reason. Their shit-for-brains must have defective pre-frontal lobes.

This is not a conversation anymore. You're not listening to me, and I'm not listening to you. I can't understand what you mean.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Earl wrote:There is a movement to reform P.E. The PE4Life program, which was developed by a P.E. coach named Phil Lawler, actually promotes physical fitness without forcing nonathletes to play sports. This program even places demands on athletes, who aren't always as physically fit as they believe.
This sounds healthy. It meets the students where they are. Cool.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Craig Storm wrote:The institutions of P.E and school sports do appear to require severe rethinking, as do many educational and social programs. Many of them favor certain people and neglect others. I think the fault lies in people not taking responsibility for reforming these institutions to learn from mistakes and adapt to a changing society. I think I can see how some people could have such a distaste for institutions which are specifically sports-centered, because those specifically were catalysts for their suffering.
I've got to commend you for making this comment. Many, if not most, of the people who are now agitating so loudly that P.E. must be mandatory for all students K through 12 refuse to realize this. These boneheaded people would deny that there has ever been any problem with the failed approach of the past. Call me cynical, but I personally think that they really don't care about nonathletic kids anyway. In an e-mail that he personally addressed to me, Coach Tim McCord, who is one of the leading proponents of the PE4Life program, says that the old P.E. is still with us, and that much work still needs to be done to replace it with something that actually works. Of course, I have no problem retaining the traditional sports-centered P.E. for athletic kids and those other students who want to participate in sports as an elective.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Fat Man »

Craig Storm wrote:
Fat Man wrote:That is because (people???) in sports are total morons! They're like animals, and like animals, they do not have the ability to reason. Their shit-for-brains must have defective pre-frontal lobes.
This is not a conversation anymore. You're not listening to me, and I'm not listening to you. I can't understand what you mean.
Fuck you!

Because of these monkey-boy stem-people, I'm not allowed to sit down on a bench anymore while waiting for a bus.

In fact, yesterday, some drooling incoherently speaking moron demanded that I get up from my seat while the bus was in motion!

We got into an argument, the bus driver got the cops, and we were both taken off the bus!

I'm crippled up with painful arthritis and I need to sit down while waiting for a bus, and while riding the bus.

So, I have no use for jocks or sports fans.

A chair to sit on!

I value that far more than the worthless lives of all those in sports!

I'm sorry, but I would happily put a million jocks in here . . . . .

Image

Just so I can have . . . . .

Image

. . . THIS!!!

Yeah! One without armrests for my big fat ass!!!

Anyway . . . . .

I wish I were rich enough to own a chain of Funeral Parlors across the country. They would specialize in funeral arrangements for dead athletes.

I would call them . . .

Image

THE JOCK IN THE BOX!!!

Now that should really put the FUN in FUNeral.

MMMMMUUUUUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

In the meantime . . . . .

If you don't like what I say . . . that is, if you don't like my apples, then don't shake my tree!

Another words . . .

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

My feet, ankles, and knees hurt!

And I'm tired!

Yeah! I know! I'm just a big fat bitch!!! OK???
ImageI'm fat and sassy! I love to sing & dance & stomp my feet & really rock your world!

All I want to hear from an ex-jock is "Will that be paper or plastic?" After that he can shut the fuck up!
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Earl
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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Earl »

I know Fat Man personally. He's actually a kindhearted guy. He doesn't really mean what he says about wishing people were dead. He's just letting off steam.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." -- Oscar Wilde

Go, Montana State Bobcats!

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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Earl »

Fat Man wrote:
Craig Storm wrote:Those unfortunate and awful circumstances are not a result of the existence of sports, they are the result of people doing evil or thoughtless acts. If sports never existed, the same evil acts would still exist. It's not necessarily sports that ties these incidents together, it's the strong dominating the weak, no insult intended.
Excuse me, but it's mostly sports that is the cause of the evil.

Do we ever hear of members of a Chess Club going around beating up on people who don't like Chess?

NO!!!

In some schools where they still have Astronomy Clubs, Physics Clubs, Chemistry Clubs, and Biology Clubs, etc. etc. (that is, in schools where they're still allowed) do we ever hear of them bullying the other students around who were not interested in the same things?

NO!!!

But for some reason, it is sports that inspire bullying and violence.
I'm afraid that Fat Man has raised a valid issue here. He points out that this bullying is somehow connected with sports. But the question of why this even takes place is not answered. Neither have I ever heard anyone even suggest an answer to this question. If any psychologists or sociologists have done research on this issue, I'd sure like to hear what their findings are. Regarding the issue of the physically strong bullying the physically weak, in a rational society I would expect such bullying to be roundly condemned by everyone, since such bullying takes absolutely no courage whatsoever since there is no match here, and is cowardly and actually unmanly. In other words, it has no honor. (I cringe when I accidentally step on one of my wife's feet.) But it's not! At least not in most quarters. There don't seem to be many high-school football or boys' P.E. coaches who condemn this sort of bullying. Some even seem to encourage it. In fact, this sort of bullying is actually tolerated by many people. Why is this the case?
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Craig Storm wrote:It appears that much of the criticism of sports in these message boards is just for the sake of criticizing sports. They are demonized without valid argument and those who disagree are insulted. Itâ??s a good thing this isnâ??t called a debate forum, because that simply is not what happens here. Itâ??s a shame, because if you have a genuine reason to dislike sports, then itâ??s lost amongst the name-calling and blind, unflinching adherence to the fact that you hate sports.
Craig, the following link wil explain one reason why we are not sports fans. (Fat Man, feel free to copy this webpage article if you want, as I don't know how.) Ringer has written a series of articles at his website on school bullying that looks interesting. (I've read only a few of the articles.)

http://www.robertringer.com/high-school-sports.html
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Re: What's the worst sport?

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Earl wrote:
Craig Storm wrote:It appears that much of the criticism of sports in these message boards is just for the sake of criticizing sports. They are demonized without valid argument and those who disagree are insulted. Itâ??s a good thing this isnâ??t called a debate forum, because that simply is not what happens here. Itâ??s a shame, because if you have a genuine reason to dislike sports, then itâ??s lost amongst the name-calling and blind, unflinching adherence to the fact that you hate sports.
Craig, the following link will explain one reason why we are not sports fans. (Fat Man, feel free to copy this webpage article if you want, as I don't know how.) Ringer has written a series of articles at his website on school bullying that looks interesting. (I've read only a few of the articles.)

http://www.robertringer.com/high-school-sports.html
Well, here is a copy of said article from said web site.
Jocks Rule: High School Sports

By Robert Ringer


Years after the only high school reunion I ever attended, the Columbine shootings occurred. People were rightly horrified, as they have been by every school shooting since then. Investigations into the backgrounds of the killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, made it clear that the root cause of their anger was that they had been on the receiving end of a nonstop barrage of bullying, taunting, and teasing at school.

Sadly, Harris and Klebold have become cult figures among bullied and disenfranchised teenagers. Seung-Hui Cho even mentioned them in his manifesto prior to killing thirty-two fellow students and teachers at Virginia Tech. Actions do indeed have consequences.

What immediately struck me the day the Columbine story flashed across television screens worldwide was that the school sounded like a clone of Brigadoon High. Even on the news, there was no attempt to hide Columbine's firmly entrenched caste system. In particular, I recall one student saying during an interview, "Everyone knows that jocks rule at Columbine." High school sports are huge in the minds of administrators, parents, and students.

I don't think you need to convince most students and parents of the truth in that statement. After all, jocks ruled at Brigadoon High when I was there and, amazingly, still did at our class reunion years later.

In a recent article in Time, Adam Cohen wrote:

------------------------------
It's a cliché that jocks and cheerleaders rule, but it is largely true. While others plod through high school, they glide: their exploits celebrated in pep rallies and recorded in the school paper and in trophy cases. "The jocks and the cheerleaders, yes, have the most clout," says Blake McConnell, a student at Sprayberry High School near Atlanta. "They get out of punishment - even with the police. Joe Blow has a wreck and has been drinking, and he gets the book thrown at him. The quarterback gets busted, and he gets a lighter sentence."
------------------------------

Cohen just as easily could have been writing about Brigadoon High. In fact, the truth be known, it's the same at virtually every high school in America. Though most administrators would deny it, athletes are revered and given special treatment at both public and private high schools. Which puts other students at a decided disadvantage, especially socially, if they are not athletic â?? or simply have no interest in athletics.

Perhaps Alice James, a 23-year-old IT consultant who went to school in the United States, Great Britain, and France, summed up the Columbine situation best in Theage.com.au when she wrote:

------------------------------
The U.S. high school system is unusually vicious. Of course, all teenagers are cliquey and can be cruel. But there are two differences in the U.S. system, I guess. The first is that it is unusually hierarchical. In British schools, you get different groups who all sneer at each other, but there's no obvious ranking system. The kids into hip-hop might hate the kids who are into pop, but neither of them is universally regarded to be better or higher up the social tree.

In American schools, it's like the bloody Indian caste system. Jocks simply rule the school, and everyone knows it. They are indisputably at the top, and "freaks," which means anybody a little bit different (and I guess that included Eric [Harris] and Dylan [Klebold]), are indisputably at the bottom.

The second big difference is that the hierarchy the teenagers create for themselves is reinforced by parents and the school authorities by giving out awards to the prom queen and the football squad. While most British or French parents see their teenagers' social affairs as trivial or even slightly comical, American parents take it incredibly seriously.

It's given a kind of official imprimatur, because they build their kids up to be cheerleaders or jocks and they're openly disappointed if they don't make it. For "freaks," it's not just like they've failed in the eyes of their schoolmates â?? it's like they've failed for life."

------------------------------

I believe that most parents favor less emphasis on athletics, but few of them have the courage to step forward and say so. And with good reason: They fully understand the rules of The Game and realize that making waves would quickly label them â?? and their kids â?? troublemakers. A good question would be, "Who gains the most by promoting high school sports?" It really isn't the jocks. They simply benefit peripherally.

Nevertheless, jocks continue to rule at high schools throughout the country â?? and continue to get special treatment. And that, in turn, sends a terrible signal to the rest of the student body. A kid who gets straight A's has to wonder why a guy who can run with a football gets a letter sweater, but he doesn't.

I would go one step further and say that athletes should get no awards for their athletic accomplishments and certainly no special treatment, and students who excel at academics and the arts should be hailed and applauded by both faculty members and their fellow students. There's nothing wrong with being good at sports, but it should be kept in perspective. Winning a basketball game is not a major achievement in the grand scale of things.

Which brings me to one-time CBS news anchor Dan Blather Rather. I remember shaking my head in disgust when Rather opened one of his broadcasts in December 1999 by saying excitedly, "There's joy once again at Columbine High School." He then went on to tell how Columbine had won the Class 5A state football championship of Colorado.

The implication was that winning the football championship somehow made things right at Columbine. No, no, no! As usual, Dan, you got it completely wrong. The exaltation of jocks is a major part of the out-of-control bullying problem at schools like Columbine. Your jubilation over that football championship simply papered over it.

Former Columbine student Brooks Brown, a friend of Harris and Klebold, showed a much better understanding of the situation than Rather when he said: "The truth is that our school was not the happy place everyone's playing it off to be. A lot of people walk through that school with just a feeling of fear. ... You feel nothing else. You worry if someone's going to come up and beat the hell out of you all the time."

And another friend of the two killers put it in simple terms that everyone can understand: "They were hated, so they hated back."

I'm not naïve enough to believe that parents of athletes in high school sports programs will agree with anything I've said in this article, but plenty of other people do. And I'll post some examples of that in the next Feedback Forum.
Enter the front door in any high school in Anytown USA.

As you enter the lobby, what is the very first thing you will see?

You will see a large glass display case with some shelves inside, and upon the shelves you will see these beautiful gold colored bronze of brass trophies for football or basketball or other athletic accomplishments, paying tribute and high honor to those who had caused their schools to win in many games.

But what about the best and brightest student? What about those who are making high grades in all of their academic subjects, science, math, chemistry, physics, or biology? What about those students who are on the A and the B Honer Role. What about them? What kind of tribute do they receive for their accomplishments?

All they can ever hope to get, is a single sheet of paper with the names of all the A and B Honor Role students tacked up on the bulletin board, not even in the main lobby, but further down the hall somewhere next to the door to the Janitors supply room, or something like that, and eventually, that single sheet of paper is either covered over with posters announcing the next football or basketball game, or that sheet of paper gets torn off the bulletin board and ends up in the trash.

As I have said so often before on these forums . . . . .

My mother taught me how to read and write before I even started school. When I was only in the 3rd grade, I was already reading at the adult level, and when I was 13, I scored 150 points on a standard IQ test.

I was mainly interested in science, especially Astronomy. When I was in high school, I wanted to take classes in science, chemistry, physics, math, algebra, geometry, and trigonometry.

But I didn't learn jack-shit. My science teacher was also the football coach,and he was too fucking busy coaching his team to be teaching in the class room, so he would set up a movie projector instead, and leave the class room, and we would be sitting there watching a bunch of stupid cartoons! That was my science class. This was back in 1969 and our science text books dated back to the 1950s.

And I was bullied around by the jocks, my life even threatened, so I had to leave school for my own safety, after which, I had an emotional and mental breakdown and spent three weeks in a psychiatric ward, where the ward attendants liked to beat up on the patients, and one night I was raped by an older man.

I felt like I was being punished because of my interest in Astronomy.

The USA has flushed it's schools down the crapper, sacrificing academics for athletics, and punishing the good students while athletic gutter-thugs are free to bully and intimidate the good students and are never held accountable for it.

The spirit of Galileo is still on trial by the Inquisition and is still under house arrest.

The spirit of Giordano Bruno is still burning at the stake!

I can almost hear their ghosts crying out in the night!
Last edited by Fat Man on Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Craig Storm »

My experience of high school was not as that article described. But I am in Canada. High school and University sports are not televised, nor do many people care about them. There were annoying jocks and gym teachers, but once the mandatory grade 10 gym class ended, so did much of the contact with them. I went to a pretty good high school, with strong drama and art programs. But the football team was still one of the better ones in the city. If the culture described in that article is even half true, then it is completely different than that in my experience in Canada.
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Re: What's the worst sport?

Post by Ray »

Craig Storm wrote:It appears that much of the criticism of sports in these message boards is just for the sake of criticizing sports. They are demonized without valid argument and those who disagree are insulted. Itâ??s a good thing this isnâ??t called a debate forum, because that simply is not what happens here.
Duh. This is not a debate board. It is, as the name implies, the International I hate Sports Club. No one has an obligation to explain or justify why they don't like sports.

It's also a good thing this isn't called the International House of Pancakes because we simply don't make or sell pancakes.

And it's a very good thing this isn't called the shoe farm because we haven't planted shoes in... I don't know how long!


Welcome to the International I hate Sports Club!


FREEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!!

EDIT: Although.. truth be told, I think this website's name maybe should be changed to bring it more into alignment with its true purpose.. maybe something like.. WHACK-A-JOCK-LIKE-A-PINATA!
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I Hope We Lose!
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