Non-ignorant athlete/sports fan here- please read

[SportsGuy92]

I guess he left. I always get what I want.

But heâ??ll be back next weekend, if not sooner.

A bit of fatherly advice ( which I feel qualified to give, since Iâ??ve raised two teenagers): Sergey and SportsGuy92, I sense that there may be personal animosity between the two of you. Iâ??m sure both of you like to argue, and thereâ??s nothing wrong with a heated debate. But Iâ??m beginning to think that this might have become personal. Why donâ??t you two declare a temporary truce and try to get to know each other? As dopey as this may sound, Iâ??m serious. Why not? Think of it as a learning experience. Your argument over sports and video games is almost pointless. You each have your own preference. Thereâ??s no point arguing over oneâ??s preference. The two of you might discover that you have some other interests in common. Please give my suggestion serious consideration.

You can send e-mails to each other or use the PM (private message) feature of the forum. That way, you wonâ??t be writing for an audience. This website provides an excellent opportunity to find new friends. Since I started posting at this website in February, both Ray (who e-mailed me first) and Fat Man have become friends of mine. I would say close friends. This is a great opportunity to find a new friend. You might be surprised.

Sergey, I know how you feel about â??jocksâ? because I felt the same way when I was your age. I especially resented football players. I felt so strongly about it that I wouldnâ??t attend the University of Texas in Austin with my best friend because I couldnâ??t stand â??big-timeâ? college football. For years I felt like football players had nothing in common with me. But when I was in my early 20s, I discovered there were some who shared my political views. One of my political heroes was a state legislator who had played college football. When he ran for Congress in 1976, I drove over to his law office and gave him a monetary contribution. He actually came out to greet me (not that I expected him to) and later mailed me a handwritten letter thanking me for my contribution. Most politicians will send out form letters instead. In 1981 I came across an article written by a sociology professor who had also played football at the university he attended. In his article he expressed views that indicated that he was not a mindless sports fan. I gave him a long-distance call to talk to him about the anthology of sociological essays that he had co-authored with another writer. I continued to call him. When I told him that I was prejudiced against football players, he said, â??I can understand why.â? We have been friends ever since. He has helped expose corruption in some university football programs. The point Iâ??m trying to make is that I started looking for individual players who did not fit the negative stereotype that I believed in. SportsGuy92 is a far cry from others whose names I wonâ??t mention. You say that every athlete youâ??ve met is an idiot. Iâ??m sure youâ??ve met some real jerks. But if both you and SportsGuy92 are willing to have a civil conversation in private, you might discover that heâ??s not an idiot.

Of course, I may have just succeeded in irritating you both.

Earl, I have no problems with what Sergey's interests are at all, but what's really pissing me off right now is his assertion that "sports require physical strength, nothing more". You may not like sports, but you seem to me like someone who is intelligent enough to realize that statement is a bunch of BULLSHIT.

[Earl]

It's not that I dislike sports; I just never had an interest in them when I was growing up. I never had any interest in watching any spectator sport. Then my lack of interest in sports was coupled with rather negative experiences.

At the risk of upsetting those on my side, I have to agree with SportsGuy92 that sports do involve more than physical strength. There are physical skills that have to be developed. For example, as my first personal trainer showed me at my health club, shooting a basketball is not just thrusting the basketball towards the hoop. There are particular wrist, finger, and arm movements that require a lot of practice to master until they can be done without thinking, such as learning how to use a stenograph machine. (I've forgotten most of the details. It's been nearly two years since I was shown how to properly shoot a basketball. Really my only concern at the health club has been bodybuilding.) As I learned in a rather humiliating way when I once was forced to participate in a game of basketball in my mandatory 8th-grade P.E. class, it's impossible to play basketball without developing this skill. I am not saying that these skills are on the level of, say, a surgeon's skills; but they are skills, nonetheless.

I'm not saying that all is well in the world of sports, but I do agree with SportsGuy92 on this point. I may disagree with him on other issues.

[SportsGuy92]

It's not that I dislike sports; I just never had an interest in them when I was growing up. I never had any interest in watching any spectator sport. Then my lack of interest in sports was coupled with rather negative experiences.

At the risk of upsetting those on my side, I have to agree with SportsGuy92 that sports do involve more than physical strength. There are physical skills that have to be developed. For example, as my first personal trainer showed me at my health club, shooting a basketball is not just thrusting the basketball towards the hoop. There are particular wrist, finger, and arm movements that require a lot of practice to master until they can be done without thinking, such as learning how to use a stenograph machine. (I've forgotten most of the details. It's been nearly two years since I was shown how to properly shoot a basketball. Really my only concern at the health club has been bodybuilding.) As I learned in a rather humiliating way when I once was forced to participate in a game of basketball in my mandatory 8th-grade P.E. class, it's impossible to play basketball without developing this skill. I am not saying that these skills are on the level of, say, a surgeon's skills; but they are skills, nonetheless.

I'm not saying that all is well in the world of sports, but I do agree with SportsGuy92 on this point. I may disagree with him on other issues.

If you hadn't read what what I was talking about, here it is:
http://www.sportssuck.org/phpbb2/viewto ... &sk=t&sd=a

[Earl]

I had read the topic, and I am agreeing with you. I should have mentioned in my previous post that I knew you had no problem with Sergey's interests.

[Sergey]

Him saying his sports take more skill than my REAL TIME STRATEGY games is bullshit.

[Earl]

Hi, Sergey. I really can't be a judge and say that one takes more skill than the other because, frankly, I don't know enough about either one. In fact, I know nothing about the more recent video games. I wasn't really saying that one took more skill than the other. All I was saying was that sports do require the development of some skills. No offense was intended.

A vast number of inner city kids think that they will be in the pros someday when you and I know that only a tiny fraction of them will. When reality sinks in for them they are left with a poor education, no real skills and headed for the slammer because they were never encouraged to pursue anything intellectual. It's not cool to be smart because sports is the only thing they target as a goal, it's not real and it's a trajedy that will destroy this country from within.

Thank you, Greencom, for saying what I've been thinking for years. You're absolutely right.

In the early 1960s black high-school girls preferred to date black boys who excelled academically. This is no longer true. Black nerds seem to be even more unpopular among their fellow black classmates than white nerds are among their own (which is bad enough). For example, the black conservative radio talk show host Larry Elder was bullied when he was a boy simply because he was studious. In the past ethnic and minority groups have used sports to advance themselves in American society, but black participation in sports is way past the saturation point and has now become counterproductive. A lot of black boys need to forget about sports as a pancea (as a form of recreation, fine) and start hitting the books. If the black community is ever saved in this country, they will be saved by black nerds.

There is an anti-intellectual element of American culture that goes back to Colonial times with "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" by Washington Irving. Today anti-intellectualism is not inherent in sports themselves, but is a part of the culture that has developed around certain (but not all) sports, especially football. SportsGuy92, please notice that I'm making a distinction between something that is inherent in sports and something (culture) that is not inherent but has developed around and is associated with sports. The point is that culture can be changed.

Frequently nonathletic boys who have no interest in sports but have chosen to excel academically are dismissed as sissies. Never mnd that there have been intellectual men throughout history who have shown great courage. Years ago I came across a book written by a sociology professor who claimed that many social problems were caused by men whom she labeled as being "feminized." Of course, these men happened to be nonathletes; and she extolled athletes above all other men. SportsGuy92, just as you objected to the negative stereotypes of athletes expressed at this website, I was personally offended by this woman's demeaning of nonathletic men because, first of all, I've never had effeminate mannerisms in my entire life. In other words, I felt personally attacked, and resented some stranger who didn't even know me attributing certain negative character traits to me that I did not possess.

Amazingly, this anti-intellectualism is directed against scientists, despite the fact that all of our modern comforts and conveniences were discovered or developed by scientists. A leading mouthpiece of this anti-intellectualism is the Johnny-come-lately conservative radio talk show host Dennis Miller, who regularly denigrates nerds and (like many others) calls scientists "pencil-necked geeks." Just like the sociology professor whom I mentioned above, he just happens to be a big football fan. No, I am not saying that most football fans are anti-intellectual; but some (more than just a few) clearly are.

[Earl]

Someone once said, "Sports have become a defining attribute for men, unfortunately." That someone is not someone like me or Fat Man or one of the other members of this forum who have no interest in sports, but is Joe Ehrmann, a former professional football player who is now a minister and a volunteer high-school football coach. (If you are interested, see my topic "Coach Ehrmann.") Football and a few other sports have been used (or misused, rather) to be the only definition or standard of masculinity, which means that nonathletic boys are considered to be less masculine and really not deserving of any respect, despite their own accomplishments and strengths. Notice that the hateful critics of this website (as opposed to Polite24 and SportsGuy92, who are actually reasonable) are obsessed with nerds, whom they frequently refer to as "fags." Why do they have such an obsession with nerds and fags? I have to wonder about someone who constantly says fags, fags, fags, fags, fags. (Yes, we already know such people exist. So what else is new?) Where does this hatred of nerds come from?

Well, I think I've managed to offend both sides tonight.

[greencom]

Someone once said, "Sports have become a defining attribute for men, unfortunately." That someone is not someone like me or Fat Man or one of the other members of this forum who have no interest in sports, but is Joe Ehrmann, a former professional football player who is now a minister and a volunteer high-school football coach. (If you are interested, see my topic "Coach Ehrmann.") Football and a few other sports have been used (or misused, rather) to be the only definition or standard of masculinity, which means that nonathletic boys are considered to be less masculine and really not deserving of any respect, despite their own accomplishments and strengths. Notice that the hateful critics of this website (as opposed to Polite24 and SportsGuy92, who are actually reasonable) are obsessed with nerds, whom they frequently refer to as "fags." Why do they have such an obsession with nerds and fags? I have to wonder about someone who constantly says fags, fags, fags, fags, fags. (Yes, we already know such people exist. So what else is new?) Where does this hatred of nerds come from?
Well, I think I've managed to offend both sides tonight.

Earl,
This hatred of nerds is really a hatred and jealousy of anyone with intellect. There is no lower strata for jocks to abuse since they are already at the bottom of the gene pool so they attack upward and need to be in a herd to do so since it takes more than one of them to assemble an entire brain to do anything. They also fear what they do not understand so they make fun of people of science and culture. Unfortunately the vast majority of the public has this affliction and therefore worship at the jockstraps of these cretins. Dennis Miller is just a conservative whore who will say anything for a buck. He knows the limited mental capacity of the masses and targets it and profits by it. The future has always belonged to the tiny percentage of the population that is bright enough to know the futility and pointlessness of organized sports. Polite24 and SportsGuy92 while marginally less jocklike are still clueless of this and probably always will be. I have given up on both of those drones. If they were cats they would always miss the litter box.

Greencom

[Earl]

Hi, Greencom. I'm glad you're apparently not irritated with my independent direction in this forum. I'm afraid I'm more conciliatory than I am confrontational. Call me crazy; but I would have attempted a dialogue with Samdaman, if he had been willing. (Admittedly, that's a mighty big "if").

Dennis Miller is just a conservative whore who will say anything for a buck.

I just love your characterization of Miller. How true it is!

Please don't be too hard on Polite24 and SportsGuy92. They're okay. They're nice kids. They certainly are not like the haters.

[greencom]

Earl,
I know they're good kids, I'm trying to make them good adults, the sheeple herd is big enough, it doesn't need any more. Years ago it was called "tough love", trying to keep kids out of trouble.By the way, thanks for putting up with my tirades. I would like Samdaman to show up here, he deserves no punches to be pulled. I miss it. Polite and SportsGuy CAN be saved.
Greencom

[Earl]

By the way, thanks for putting up with my tirades.

Sure. I've had a few myself.

I would like Samdaman to show up here, he deserves no punches to be pulled. I miss it.

Unfortunately, Samdaman can't show up here because he was banned. He sure wanted to hurt the website. I agree that if he did come back that he would not be deserving of kid-gloves treatment. Can you imagine what a forum fight between Fat Man and Samdaman would be like? Wow, that would be great! Think of all the vicious insults! I can just see the fur flying all over the place.

[Sergey]

I always wondered how that would turn out.

[Earl]

Yes, indeed! Despite his obesity, Fat Man is pretty much immune from cutting personal insults; and as we all know, Fat Man is quite capable of dishing it out. I'm not sure that Samdaman would have been able to withstand the onslaught for very long. It sure would have been quite a contest. I think Fat Man would have ended up eating him for breakfast (after turning him into chocolate first, of course).

[Sergey]

Samdaman would start screaming IRL and using caps. He'd even use insults a lot (worse than before). Poor idiot will be flamed then eaten.

[Earl]

Caps are really scary.

He'd even use insults a lot (worse than before).

Yeah. Like every word would be an insult instead of just every other word.

Poor idiot will be flamed then eaten.

Sounds like cooking a steak.