Introductions

[Safety]

You guys should look up Pat Tillman. He was an NFL player who went on to serve in the military, but was unfortunately killed by friendly fire. He said that he wanted to play for the team he was drafted by for his entire career (The Arizona Cardinals) , and I'm sure if he was still alive then he would still be on that team. He was born into a military family.

[Earl]

I do look up to Pat Tillman, but not because he was an NFL player (anymore than I would look up to an actor simply because he/she is an actor). I admire Tillman because he had a sense of selflessness. He was willing to give up a hefty salary in order to serve his country. My respect for Tillman has absolutely nothing to do with sports.

Incidentally, Tillman was an atheist. Just thought I'd mention that. It's interesting.

[Skul]

I forgot to say this to our new member:

Welcome, recovering_fan!

[Safety]

Tillman was an atheist. Just thought I'd mention that. It's interesting.

That is odd. Usually well-spoken people like that follow a certain faith, especially someone with as much loyalty as Pat had. I thought that the interview with his brother at Pat's funeral was also very interesting.

[Earl]

Although I'm a Christian, I certainly don't deny that individual atheists can be quite principled and courageous. Dr. Andrei Sakharov was a Soviet physicist (known as "the father of the Soviet H-bomb") who courageously turned against Communist repression and became a leading human rights activist. Even though he was an atheist living under an atheistic totalitarian regime, he advocated freedom of religion for his country and publicly condemned the Soviet persecution of believers of all faiths.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

That is odd. Usually well-spoken people like that follow a certain faith, especially someone with as much loyalty as Pat had. I thought that the interview with his brother at Pat's funeral was also very interesting.

No offence (although some people could take offence from your statement), but your statement seems very closed minded and ignorant to me. You think that it is "odd" that a non-religious person could act selflessly or bravely? I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. There are plenty of non-religious men who are among the bravest to have ever lived. Albert Einstein was not a religious man, but he was of Jewish heritage, and was living in Germany when the Nazis came to power. His books were burned, and he wasn't only a target of the Nazis, he simply wasn't a popular person at the time. If I remember correctly, someone stated that he would pay anybody who would kill Einstein, and this man was only fined a few cents. However his career did not stop when the Nazis came to power, he simply fled to America and became quite involved in many things even outside of his academic career. Many non-religious men have shown bravery and selflessness, and there are countless religious hypocrites who are cowards (I don't mean this to offend any religious people, these hypocrites certainly do not account for all religious people). I do not believe in any God (although I would not call myself an atheist, I just do not want to put labels on things like that), and I would like to think that I would act with more morals than most would. I lost my faith in God when I was just a child when one of my good friends died of cancer, which definitely was a very personal experience for me. I don't act morally to please any God, but because I don't want to harm others and enjoy helping people who deserve help. I'm sick and tired of the myth that people who aren't religious can't be as good as religious people or can't be any more moral, and your statement is a perfect example of this. Please stop it, religion isn't the only thing causing people to act right, and any good person will act right because they are genuinely a good person. I'm not an anti religious person and I have no intentions on debating the existence of any deities with anyone, but I've heard enough of these arrogant statements.

[Earl]

In my previous post, I hope I did not appear to be condescending towards atheists. I was speaking of individuals, not belief systems (which, of course, includes atheism). I don't have to be an atheist in order to admire the selflessness of men such as Tillman and Sakharov. And I've always been impressed by people who stand up for the rights of others under extremely difficult and trying circumstances.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

In my previous post, I hope I did not appear to be condescending towards atheists. I was speaking of individuals, not belief systems (which, of course, includes atheism). I don't have to be an atheist in order to admire the selflessness of men such as Tillman and Sakharov. And I've always been impressed by people who stand up for the rights of others under extremely difficult and trying circumstances.

No, there was nothing wrong at all with your post, there wasn't anything in your post that seemed to generalize any type of group.

Also, as an addition to my previous post, addressed towards Safety's comment, I should also note that my grandfather does not believe in a God (this didn't have any involvement in how I lost my faith, I found out that he wasn't religious a while after I no longer believed in God) and was definitely not a cowardly person. When he was only 16 (he had to lie about his age), he joined the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War II and later joined the Royal Air Force (this was Britain's air force) to fly the Lancaster Bomber, a massive plane. He was involved in an air raid on the SS Headquarters situated near Berchdesgaden (I probably spelt that wrong) where over four thousand SS troops were killed. However, even though he had likely killed plenty of men during the war (they were Nazis, but men nevertheless), he was, and still is, an extremely peaceful person. He wouldn't harm a fly. I've often heard him speak of peace and the problems of war. Also, even though he didn't believe in a God, he encouraged my grandmother (his wife obviously) to attend Church, as she was a Christian. And they raised children who were Christians, as my father believes in God, so he did not force his children to disbelieve in God, he's a humble person who is definitely not an anti-religious person. He is a good person, and I looked up to him (and I still do) a lot in my childhood, he definitely contributed to who I am today.

[recovering_fan]

Welcome, recovering_fan!

Well Skul, I hope this doesn't violate Rule #4, but let me just say "thanks."

--RF

[Skul]

It does. YOU ARE TEH BANNED!

Seriously, no, your post had relevancy, so... yeah.

[i_like_1981]

Several years ago, when I heard that Manchester United and the New York Yankees had entered into a marketing agreement of sorts, I started telling people in forums online that their two rival franchises, Liverpool FC and the Boston Red Sox, respectively, ought also to merge. Last night I read that the Red Sox had actually bought Liverpool FC, and all I could think was "WHO THE F*** CARES?"

In the meantime, perhaps I can explain to non-fans why I ever did care in the first place. I certainly don't care about the sports world now. Instead I care a great deal about never returning to it.

Cheers,
RF

Hi, recovering_fan. I see you've been doing quite a bit of posting on this forum in recent days so I ought to give you a welcome. I'm supposed to be one of the regulars on here but I've been neglecting my duties as a member recently. Looks like it hasn't done too much harm to the forum, though. And yes, I hear you about this. Sports really aren't games anymore. They're just excuses to handle a LOT of cash and have some pretty big sums to print in the news for some guaranteed readers! The money that goes into competitive sports is absurd, and the fact that some players get paid more for a single game than an average person would in, let's say, two years, is one of the things that drives me to be very much embittered and resentful towards sports. Tell me, what exactly have these people done to EARN money? Young kids can organise and play a game of football themselves, but do they get paid millions of pounds for it? No. It's just stupid and sports have been like this as far as I can remember. I might have liked them, or at least not despised them, if there wasn't such ridiculous amounts of money going into them. There are other things that bother me about sports, but read my posts in the forum and you'll find out all about them. So, enjoy your stay here, and I'll speak to you again sometime.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Earl]

And please accept my apologies, recovering_fan, for welcoming you to this forum at such a late date. Sorry about that. I've just been busy. Well, actually, spending too much time at other websites.

[Silence]

Hey all, another fellow sports hater here. I'm sort of glad to find likeminded people like myself, it was getting disheartening when everyone around you had this crazy obession with things like football and can recite game scores and/or stats.

Let me tell you the things that had let me to my hatred of sports, it was in the sixth grade I think. During the NBA playoffs, my peers around me were discussing more and more about the games. It also did not help matters when my PE teacher was also a sports fan. In short, I did not have a very fun time during middle school. PE class had managed to derail my studies and greatly decreased my self-esteem, since it was so sports focused.

I'm greatly sorry if I started to sound like I'm ranting, or whining. I am glad to be here, and hope to engage in discussions with you guys.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Welcome to the forum Silence! You are definitely not alone as someone uninterested in sports.

And you didn't sound like you were ranting or whining. And don't be afraid to rant here anyway, most of us tend to do it often over here.

[Fat Man]

Welcome Silence!

And feel free to rant and rave all you want!

Most of my posts here are rants and raves, as you will soon discover.

Once again . . .

Welcome to our forum.