Do you support this website? Why don't you like sports?

[Earl]

The title Iâ??ve chosen to use for my latest topic actually is an abridged expression of the following six questions: Do you support this website? If so, why? Does this website disturb or upset you? If so, why? Speaking to those who support this website, why donâ??t you like sports? How did you come to dislike sports?

You may be asking yourself what purpose I have in mind for starting this topic. Well, Iâ??ve been wondering where this forum will be two years from now -- whether it will have continued to limp along (as it has done for about a year and a half) or if it will be dead. Of course, the fate of this forum will depend upon more than a single factor, including the commitment of those members who currently are still active. I admit Iâ??ve neglected this forum from time to time during this time of decreased activity. Now Iâ??ve determined to hopefully provide a stimulus for increased posting in the forum. Even if my efforts make no difference in that regard, I still want to speak my mind.

Although nothing lasts forever (except, as I believe, oneâ??s soul), Iâ??d hate to see this website die (although it wouldnâ??t be the end of the world, needless to say). No, it certainly isnâ??t popular (as if popularity alone is an indication of the value or worth of something); but it does serve what I think is a needed purpose. A frequent comment Iâ??ve read from sympathetic visitors who have bothered to leave a message in the Guestbook or to send a letter to the â??Lettersâ? column for the year or to post in the forum has been I thought I was the only one. Such comments have also expressed relief.

Iâ??ve known the feeling quite well myself: When I was a boy, I actually felt ashamed of myself or was made to feel ashamed of myself for not participating in any sport, despite the fact that I never had any interest in sports or any desire to participate in any sport or to view or read about any sporting or athletic event. When I was in my early twenties, I was still feeling embarrassed and even a slight sense of shame for not having been involved in any sport. Finally, I came to my senses one day and told myself there was no reason for me to feel embarrassed. I had never had any desire to participate in any sport; so, there was absolutely no reason for me to have ever felt ashamed or embarrassed.

Well, Iâ??m not even through with my introductory comments; but Iâ??ve got to stop typing this first post now. I would invite anyone whoâ??s interested to answer questions Iâ??ve asked in the first paragraph above. Regarding your answer to the last question (which is â??How did you come to dislike sports?â?), please donâ??t feel compelled to type up your complete answer in a single post. Be specific and give details. This approach hopefully will lead to an extended discussion, which might be of interest. Donâ??t just rant. All that ranting does, aside from letting off steam, is to cause a lot of heat, but not provide much light.

When I post in this topic again, I shall pick up where Iâ??m now about to leave off.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Do you support this website? If so, why?

I do support this site. I support it because there isn't really any other place for people who dislike sports to discuss this issue. While I don't have anything against sports (although I used to, but I won't go too far into that right now, as I've discussed it in my older posts from when I first joined), I understand why some people need a place to vent their opinions against sports, as there isn't really any good place to do so elsewhere. I've tried to always keep up with this forum because of this, and simply because I enjoy being a part of it.

Speaking to those who support this website, why donâ??t you like sports? How did you come to dislike sports?

At this point in time, I wouldn't even say I dislike sports, I simply don't really care about them. I actually participated in my school's cross country team last year, although I didn't get to finish the season due to a leg injury. But as a child, I tried out a few sports, but I never really enjoyed them so much that I wanted to continue with them. Watching sports was even more uninteresting to me, I simply found no excitement from watching a sports game. I didn't become very involved in sports as a child and became more focused on academics instead. In middle school, this made me belong to the nerd stereotype which caused me to experience a fair amount of bullying, a lot of which happened during gym class by some of the athletic students. Throughout middle school and at the beginning of high school, this caused me to have a negative opinion on sports. This negative view of sports simply returned to a lack of interest (which continues to this day) as the bullying stopped.

[Fat Man]

Well, as for me, I started out, not hating sports, but being simply not interested in sports.

But over the years, after having been bullied and harassed, I came to passionately HATE sports.

So, it was sports that taught me to hate sports!



Yeah! a fine way to promote sports!

Works every time!

[Earl]

I've been ill for over a week. I hope to resume posting in a day or two. Please excuse. Sorry.

[DanTran]

I support this website, I REALLY hate sports, and I don't know why, Seriously.

Unlike some of you, my hatred for sports does not come from personal experience. I WAS bullied throughout middle school, but that had no relation to any type of sport whatsoever.

I've just always hated it, since I really began to mature. My parents made me play rec sports: baseball, basketball, and soccer. But, I ENJOYED IT. Yes, you heard me right, I thank my parents for having me do these activities in Elementary school. I actually liked playing out in the fresh air, having fun with kids that would later become some of my life-long best friends.

I wasn't very good, except maybe in baseball, but most of the kids weren't any good either. Hell, if I had listened to my coach and practiced more throwing (I was supposedly a good model pitcher) I might have been playing baseball for the last 15 years. Anyway, most of us in rec just wanted to have fun. And that's a true story.

However, it was the attitudes of sports fans that made me detest sports. Seeing how they act like sheep, so immaturely! Wearing jerseys and all of that other stupid shit. I had no idea how bad sports bullying really was until I came here, and that was the last straw. No sports for me, ever again! It might seem like a superficial reason, I just fucking hate it because everyone else makes such a big deal about it, and because of all the violence it creates.


Of course, I'm torn. I have good memories of rec, which makes me different from almost everyone here. When I have children should I let them participate? It's a question that I've been asking myself for about a year...I probably just won't let them. Even if they want to do it, this forum has inspired me, I will not let them ever play sports!!

[Silence]

It has been a long time since I've posted here. However, I'll try my best to respond.

I've never liked sports, as I was never interested in it at all. I just didn't get the enjoyment out of seeing physical contests between other people. Personally though, I've never been one for anything that involves using the body as a competitive medium. I do understand the importance of exercise, and I don't mind if people use sports as a way to keep themselves fit. I think what made me hate sports, were the fans. Watching sports is rampant in my family, my parents, uncles, aunts, and etc. always had a game on, whether it be basketball or football. They always had a favorite team and they kept track of scores. I tried to see why they liked it, what they saw in it. Sports just never clicked with me. This also became rampant during middle school. Where the majority of students talked about sports in passing or in depth. Whenever I was asked about some game, I always never knew what to say. I often got chastised for that, or had people told me to start watching. It had gotten far enough to the point where being in the know on the most recent game got yourself in a PE teacher's favor.

However, I've never gotten bullied for being a nerd. Even though I don't like sports, there was just no situation for me that would've forced me to confess it. From what I've experienced, most nerds are usually asked for help by other students. I've had most people come to me for help on any subject, except for math. It's just one of those those moments where liking sport was actually irrelevant, even though they still bring it up.

I still felt as if I wasn't normal though. Even though no one really bullied me, no one really bothered to talk to me, especially during middle school. For most of my life, I've never really had friends that stick with me through the years. I do make a fair few friends there and then, but I either drive them away or they start to get tired of me. It hurt more when I had not cared about the one thing that everyone somehow seemed to like. In that point of life, I thought I was going to be alone, for possibly forever.

Another thing that made me dislike sports, was PE. Until high school, every PE class seemed to be sports-oriented. We were either playing football, basketball, or etc. I didn't care for sports, and yet I was now forced to play them, with people watching. It didn't help that a majority of my classmates were good at sports, and that I was incompetent at them. It only served to make me feel even weirder about myself.

In the end though, I did get over my self-doubt. High school has its ups and downs, considering that sports has an even more rampant presence here, though it's more school sports than anything, and then there's the pep rallies... I've met some amazing people, and found one who is a kindred spirit.

I do support this site. With sports practically everywhere, and with such an overwhelming amount of fans out there. I believe that there should be a place where non-sports fans could express their opinions, without facing ridicule.

An update: I don't necessarily believe in getting rid of sports altogether. I do wish that all the hype was toned down, just a little bit. However, I do acknowledge that it's been a part of human culture, ever since the beginning of human culture. I'm not going to discourage anyone for finding sports to be enjoyable, in fact, I'd encourage them.

And, as Earl said, it'd be futile to get rid of sports. It's just too engraved in our culture to even begin to think of actually removing it. I think attempting to eradicate sports would cause a lot problems, for both sports fans and non-sports fans.

[Fitman's Brother]

I do not support this site, nor do I understand why anybody would support a site "dedicated to the eradication of sports". To be clear, I came here because my brother used to post here, and he too was perplexed on why people would want to eradicate something that people enjoy.

And that's where my opposition to the site is: how can people want to take away something that others enjoy? It makes as much sense as somebody wanting to ban gay marriage because they aren't gay themselves. If you don't like sports, then don't play it. But to actually try and "eradicate" sports simply because you do not like them yourself seems absolutely selfish to me.

[Earl]

As I didn't discover this website until late December of 2008, I had no role in its creation; so, I can only speak for myself. I believe the logo "DEDICATED TO THE ERADICATION OF SPORTS" is hype. Nothing more. I don't believe that anybody here (including Fat Man, of all people) seriously believes this is even possible. Sports are a part of the mosaic of human expression and activity. They have been and always will be around. Expecting sports to be eradicated would be as vain as hoping the fine arts would be done away. It just won't happen. I repeat, it's just hype (in my humble opinion). So, the eradication hype is a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. I understand why the logo would upset some people; but, hey, like I said, is that even possible?

As for me, I believe if a young boy will feel better about himself if he participates in a sport, he should go for it (as long as he keeps it all in perspective)! For several years I've been pumping iron at a local health club and even hired a personal trainer to help me reach my goal, as I knew absolutely nothing about bodybuilding when I started. (Incidentally, especially since I would never intend to participate in any posing contests, as if I could develop my physique that much at my age, I consider bodybuilding to be a fitness activity, not a sport.) I wish I'd been introduced to bodybuilding when I was a teenager. It would have been quite beneficial to me as a confidence builder, as I had no self-confidence at that point in my life and had been suffering chronic depression for years. So, I don't favor removing team sports from the schools for that reason. Every kid should be allowed to do what will give him self-confidence in life, including participating in a sport (if that's his own choice).

That being said, one of the reasons why I contine to serve as a moderator in this forum (as opposed to quitting because I sometimes get tired of the nonsense) is because this website provides a sort of moral support for those of us who have been alienated or continue to be alienated by certain negative aspects of the culture associated with certain school sports. For example, young boys who have no interest in sports are likely to encounter certain social situations (such as bullying) that are potentially harmful to them in the long run unless they receive instruction as to how they can cope with the negative socialization. (Granted, some communities might be more enlightened in this regard than are others; but that certainly wasn't true in the state where I grew up.) I'll go into more detail later.

This forum really is just a blank sheet of paper. It can be used for ranting and hurling insults at others (which, indeed, seems to be the norm for board messaging all across the Internet); or it can be used to engage in dialogue that might promote understanding. (How naive I sound! ) In other words, what people get out of a forum like this one depends upon what they contribute in their respective posts -- good, bad, or just plain dumb.

As far as this topic is concerned, I'm going to have to get busy. I've got a lot of catching up to do.

I almost forgot ... Thanks for being civil, Fitman's Brother! Criticisms can be made in a gentlemanly manner without insults and abuse.

[Earl]

(post addressed to Fitman's Brother submitted above)

Hi, Silence.

I appreciate your excellent post. You're quite eloquent.

Sorry I'm just now responding to it. I've had a lot on my mind lately.

I've never liked sports, as I was never interested in it at all.

I never had an interest in sports, either. My wife recently made the observation I'm just not interested in games. I never wanted to learn how to play chest or any other board game, and I only had a passing interest in a few of the video games in the 1980's.

I do understand the importance of exercise, and I don't mind if people use sports as a way to keep themselves fit.

High levels of physical fitness can be achieved without participating in any sport. There isn't a single sport that exercises all the muscles of the body. For example, as I've said elsewhere, a professional football player who starts taking ballet lessons ends up with sore muscles after the first session.

This also became rampant during middle school. Where the majority of students talked about sports in passing or in depth. Whenever I was asked about some game, I always never knew what to say. I often got chastised for that, or had people told me to start watching. It had gotten far enough to the point where being in the know on the most recent game got yourself in a PE teacher's favor.

This may sound silly, but I went through high school afraid that someone would find out I didn't even know how the game of football was played and blab it all around school. I hate to admit this, but one of my goals in high school was to avoid being noticed by bullies.

However, I've never gotten bullied for being a nerd.

I'm happy to hear this hasn't been an experience in your own life.

I still felt as if I wasn't normal though. Even though no one really bullied me, no one really bothered to talk to me, especially during middle school. For most of my life, I've never really had friends that stick with me through the years. I do make a fair few friends there and then, but I either drive them away or they start to get tired of me. It hurt more when I had not cared about the one thing that everyone somehow seemed to like. In that point of life, I thought I was going to be alone, for possibly forever.

You could say we don't choose our preferences. We just happen to like what we like. Please don't feel abnormal. There are men who have made great contributions to society, including men of great courage, who never had an interest in sports. Defining masculinity in terms of sport is a lie.

I think in the next few years (or at least when you're out of high school) you'll find really good friends who don't care whether or not you're interested in sports. What you'll have in common will be other interests, and your true friends will like you just for what you are. One of my closest friends today is a former high school football player who doesn't look down on nonathletic guys. We're close because we share the same faith and have similar personalities, not to mention enjoying the same sort of entertainment.

Another thing that made me dislike sports, was PE. Until high school, every PE class seemed to be sports-oriented. We were either playing football, basketball, or etc. I didn't care for sports, and yet I was now forced to play them, with people watching. It didn't help that a majority of my classmates were good at sports, and that I was incompetent at them. It only served to make me feel even weirder about myself.

Oh, you've really touched a "hot button" issue of mine now (as you probably already know). Forcing nonathletic boys to participate in team games in mandatory P.E. classes is one of the stupidest and most cruel policies I've ever heard. You'd think whoever came up with this bright (sarcastic tone here) idea must have really hated nonathletic boys; and as far as I'm concerned, there is some credence to my suspicion. The only justification for requiring nonathletic students to take P.E. is if the class actually promotes physical fitness for them. Sports-centered P.E. actually discourages nonathletic kids from becoming physically active. I'll have more to say about this later in this topic.

In the end though, I did get over my self-doubt.

I'm glad you were able to do that. High school can be a lousy time for a lot of students.

I do support this site. With sports practically everywhere, and with such an overwhelming amount of fans out there. I believe that there should be a place where non-sports fans could express their opinions, without facing ridicule.

My sentiments exactly.

[Earl]

I can't believe this thought alluded me when I read Fitman's Brother's post in this topic. One of his comments was "If you don't like sports, then don't play it."

Fitman's Brother, I wish it were that simple; but it isn't! Tell me, do you believe nonathletic boys are given this option in traditional mandatory P.E. classes? If a nonathletic boy has no interest in sports (as if this were a crime against nature, as many on your side apparently believe), is he given the option in his P.E. class to begin an exercise program for the purpose of becoming physically fit? Is he given the choice of bodybuilding, say, instead of being forced to participate in team games and be resented by the more athletically inclined boys on his team because he's a "drag" on the team's performance? (Never mind the nonathletic boy has no interest in the sport, to begin with.) Is he given a choice as to some sort of physical activity (other than being forced to participate in a sport) that will contribute to his physical health? The answer is No!

The traditional approach to mandatory P.E. turns nonathletic boys into nonpersons. They are forced to take a course that is essentially useless to them. So, please don't tell us that sports are never forced upon anyone.

When I was a boy, the school policymakers claimed they were concerned about the nonathletic kids not being in shape; but their concern was nothing but a hypocritical lie. In the mandatory P.E. classes I was forced to endure against my own will, I never so much as even heard the words "physical fitness program." There were no bodybuilding programs for the nonathletic boys, and the reason why was because those who set up the P.E. programs really weren't interested in nonathletic boys, who were the ones with the greatest need (in terms of not being in shape). All they really cared about was sports. They could have had their football programs and their basketball programs without requiring P.E. to be mandatory. And why was that? Because there never would be a shortage of teenage boys who wanted to be on the football or basketball team of their school.

As far as the traditional P.E. is concerned, the truth of the matter is that nonathletic boys would actually be better off without being required to take a course that is useless to them and sometimes results in these kids ending up being emotionally scarred for life. (As it has turned out, I get more exercise in a single one of my workouts moderated by my personal trainer at the local health club than I ever did in an entire year of traditional mandatory "sports only" P.E.)

One of our formerly active members is an Englishman who went to school in London. His mandatory P.E. classes were just as bad for him as a nonathlete as any here in the United States. One day his P.E. class was divided into two teams for a game of cricket. (Of course, our formerly active member was being forced to participate in a game in which he had never had any interest; and, true to form, none of his P.E. classes ever offered any fitness programs or bodybuilding for nonathletic boys. Remember, this boy was being held there against his will; and he was about to become the victim of a physical assault.) When his team lost, he was blamed for it; and one of his teammates walked over to him and smashed his face with a cricket bat and broke his nose. (And I thought sports built character!) If somone walked up to you on a street, say, and smashed your face with a baseball bat, you would sue him in court. But since this particular physical assault happened to a nonathletic boy in a P.E. class, it wasn't regarded as a crime. The punk who smashed his nose (who, incidentally, if I remember correctly, eventually became a star rugby player) was merely suspended from school for a few days. When he returned to the school a few days later, the perp showed his repentance by shoving our former member into a locker. Tell me, would any sportswriter writing about school sports ever report bullying of this sort? I believe the answer would be (again) No!

[sportslover]

SHouldn't there be another option?

DO you support this website? Yes I do.

But you like sports? Yes.

I kid I kid!!

But yes I support you guys and think that jocks get far to much privilage though I like watching sports. Wait isn't that hypocritical? Nah, I just know they aren't as special as they think but it is entertaining.

Education is just as important as sports if not much more. There fatman I said it

[Earl]

Hi, sportslover. You and I have no disagreement. Your enjoyment of sports should be respected by those who aren't interested in them. I believe strongly in the "Live and let live" attitude.

As I pointed out to Fitman's Brother, I'm not "dedicated to the eradication of sports." Saying that sports should be done away is like saying the law of gravity should be repealed whenever someone falls out of a tall building. It just isn't going to happen. In my humble opinion, saying sports should be done away is just as arrogant and intolerant as saying all young boys should be forced to participate in sports, as opposed to choosing to participate in sports and respecting those who choose to not participate in sports. What many people fail to recognize is that respect is a two-way street. I've never had any intention to deprive anyone of their enjoyment of sports either as a participant or as a spectator. I've only objected to sports coercion. I grew up under Jim Crow and saw how terrible racism was; so, I grew up with a respect for other people's rights. That includes the rights of the sports crowd.

I think a clarification needs to be made at this point. When someone says he "hates sports," such an expression is vague. What does he mean by that? Does he even know what he says? I think part of the problem between many, if not most, sports fans and so-called "sports haters" is the fact that the centers of attention of the two groups are different. The focus of attention of one group is over here while the focus of attention of the other group is over there.

Just using football as an example, the attention of the fan is focused upon the action that takes place on the playing field during a game. The focus of attention on the part of someone who critiques the sports culture is what happens to people when a game is not taking place. I'm referring to issues such as how the sports culture impacts the lives of young children who have no interest in sports. In other words, on the one hand, there's the game (actual sporting events). On the other hand, there's the culture that is associated with the game, but is not inherently a part of it.

I think a big mistake that is made by people on both sides is to fail to make a distinction between the game and the culture. When more than a few sports fans hear any critique of the negative aspects of a popular school sport's culture, they believe the game itself has been attacked; but their assumption is wrong. There is not an inherent connection between the game and the culture, and that is because culture can be changed.

For example, objecting to dishonorable (if not criminal) conduct by individual athletes when they're not participating in a game and insisting they be held accountable in the name of fairness and common decency is not an attack upon the sport; but quite a few sports fans act as if they believe that it is.

An example on the other side is a comment I've read several times at different websites over the years that merely playing football will turn a boy into a bully. Playing a game is a morally neutral activity. However, the culture of machismo that is frequently associated with football may encourage bullying on the part of a boy who doesn't bring a solid moral foundation with him to the sport.

So, I make a sharp distinction between a school sport and its associated culture; and I insist that anyone with whom I would discuss some cultural aspect of one school sport or another do the same. Otherwise, there's simply no point in having such a discussion, because all that will happen is that the two of us will talk past each other and just waste each other's time.

I really don't consider myself to be a "sports hater." I don't even like the label. I'm simply critical of the negative cultural aspects associated with the most popular of the school sports. I've never had any problem with boxing, for example, because the sport does not enjoy a hegemony in the schools. In other words, socially speaking, the power relationships just aren't there with boxing. Besides, different sports have different cultures.

Really what I'm critical of is not sports; I'm critical of machismo. I'm not a sports hater; I'm a machismo hater. And the reason why is because machismo (which should be properly defined to avoid misunderstanding or making false assertions) is a phony standard of masculinity.

[wibberley]

well im not eloquent.id just like to slam every sports fans face against a wall

[Fitman's Brother]

I'm not eloquent, but an athlete would be able to kick your ass if you tried. And what would you do? Run home and cry on this webpage about how you hate athletes.

[Earl]

I think I'll be a doofus and pretend to be upset by this latest exchange between wibberley and Fitman's Brother, which I actually think is funny. So ...

I'm so disheartened by all this discord and violent rhetoric that in the interests of brotherhood and all that is good and wholesome, I'm going to quote the lyrics of that timeless George Harrison classic "Isn't It a Pity" (1970), as follows:

Isn't it a pity
Isn't it a shame
How we break each other's hearts
And cause each other pain
How we take each other's love
Without thinking anymore
Forgetting to give back
Isn't it a pity

Some things take so long
But how do I explain
When not too many people
Can see we're all the same
And because of all their tears
Your eyes can't hope to see
The beauty that surrounds them
Now, isn't it a pity

Isn't it a pity, (oh-o)
Now, isn't is a shame
How we break each other's hearts
And cause each other pain
How we take each other's love
Without thinking anymore
Forgetting to give back
Now, isn't it a pity

Now that that's over ... have at it, guys.