Introductions

[Fat Man]

Hello everyone. I very much looked forward to using this site to publicise my boxing website. However, one thing troubles me.

'Not Everyone is a Brain-dead Sports Fan!'

Does this mean that all sport fans are brain-dead? The answer to this question is essential to my continued involvement in this here thing. You see, I do not like prejudiced people -- I find them very nasal. So I cannot grace a site that is quick to make such a blanket judgement on a group of people.

I see Jocks are not popular here. I am Ok with that judgement call as I cannot abide Scottish people.

Please clarify this for me. I shall return shortly to post links to my boxing website.

Remember, 'all determination is a negation'. John McEnroe was what said that when playing at Wimbeldon. I think he is wrong. I am sure it is a double-fault on the googly. What do you think?

Sorry, to have to disappoint you . . . . .

But if you do post any links to your boxing website, I seriously doubt that anyone of us is going to bother to go there.

In some ways boxing is even worse than football. The brain injuries the football players get is almost nothing compared to what happens to boxers.

To many ex-boxers spend the rest of their lives as drooling moronic punch-drunk pug-uglies!

Well, anyway . . . . .

Welcome to the forum.

[Antigone]

No links? I may end up smelling by the end of the week. I am glad that the statement in question has a few provisos and that I can now explore this place without placing myself at risk of seeing something that is prejudicial. It is very much like the true conception of Shari'ah law. I find this very comforting.

Sports fans are like any other fans, fanatical. Often linking themselves to one team and losing objectivity in the process. Shouting, gnashing of the teeth, outpourings of blind hatred and an inability to think straight -- I suffer from all these things when thinking about Tottenham Hotspur. I hope to reach objectivity by reading this here forum.

Enthusiasts are a different kettle of fish. I am a boxing enthusiast. It is a long, hard road but I wheel along it in full knowledge of the risks associated with the sport. Brain damage, mindless guff and inane ramblings, our commentators exhibit all these traits, it really is quite sad.

However, we take the risk and have the right to choose and once in a while we step outside what is acceptable and engage in a bit of the old, you know. Boxing is all about dominion, something that rears its head in all human relationships. Boxing gives it to us in the purest form. Not domination, the two differ. I used to have domination over my wife. She began to hit me back. The resulting striving of forces creates a battle for dominion that I am, in truth, losing more often than I not. That said, the winner gets to mount the loser so I cannot complain.

I feel at ease. I may even read some of your other threads and regularly check for updates to the threads. Could someone please post the odd 'happy' news link -- I don't like to read the papers and they no longer show them at the end of the NAT. They've got rid of Trevor McDonald an' all.

'We lay there without moving. But under us all moved, and moved us, gently, up and down, and from side to side.'

[Earl]

Greetings, Antigone. I will admit that I was the one who deleted your first post in this forum. Sorry, but it just didn't make sense to me. I assumed that you were trolling. As you would guess, this website has been subjected to a lot of it. You seemed to be implying that we were perverts simply for not participating in sports. If I was mistaken, I apologize. I'm willing to start over for the sake of engaging in an honest and sincere dialogue.

I speak not as one of the creators of this website, but simply as a moderator (in other words, just another member of the forum). What you've got to understand is that this website is not an organized social movement. We're just a very small group of people, and we don't practice groupthink. Those of us who support this website come from different perspectives. We're capable of disagreeing with one another.

I don't believe that all sports fans are mindless and brain-dead. I don't agree with every single statement that has been made elsewhere in this website, simply because I'm independent in my thinking. Even though we've become friends, Fat Man (for example) would attest that he and I have had more than our share of disagreements.

Don't know if you've read any of my posts; but even though I've never had any desire to participate in a sport, I happen to be very active physically. For over two years I've been working on a bodybuilding program at a health club. On "off" days I usually take a brisk, nonstop, hour-long walk. So, I'm definitely not sedentary, to put it mildly.

As far as prejudice is concerned, there is intolerance on both sides. To see what I'm talking about, check some of the older topics of this forum. I respect sincere critics of this website who show civility (such as, to give examples, Polite24 and SportsGuy92, both of whom have stopped posting). (Incidentally, there are individual athletes and former athletes whom I admire. They include a few of my personal friends.) But the great majority of the sportsfans who have posted have been quite abusive. Check the many posts submitted by Samdaman from about 2005 or 2006 through the middle of 2007. He was a high-school football player who was quite prejudiced (hateful, I'd say) against "nerds" and other guys simply for being nonathletic. You should also check the "Letters" columns elsewhere in this website. Talk about hatred!

Boxing is all about dominion, something that rears its head in all human relationships. Boxing gives it to us in the purest form. Not domination, the two differ. I used to have domination over my wife. She began to hit me back. The resulting striving of forces creates a battle for dominion that I am, in truth, losing more often than I not. That said, the winner gets to mount the loser so I cannot complain.

Unless this is too personal for posting in a forum, could you explain what you mean by this? I've been happily married for over 30 years, but I've never felt the need to dominate my wife. She, in turn, has never tried to dominate or even manipulate me.

[recovering_fan]

Boxing is all about dominion, something that rears its head in all human relationships. Boxing gives it to us in the purest form. Not domination, the two differ. I used to have domination over my wife. She began to hit me back. The resulting striving of forces creates a battle for dominion that I am, in truth, losing more often than I not. That said, the winner gets to mount the loser so I cannot complain.

Unless this is too personal for posting in a forum, could you explain what you mean by this? I've been happily married for over 30 years, but I've never felt the need to dominate my wife. She, in turn, has never tried to dominate or even manipulate me.

And, please, Antigone, answer as diplomatically as you can. I for one would miss reading your posts if you managed to get yourself banned from the site.

My own guess, Earl, is that he does not even have a wife.

-recovering_fan

[recovering_fan]

No links? I may end up smelling by the end of the week.

Idea: make a second site, related to philosophies on dominion or I don't care what, and post links to a number of topics that tie in with that philosophy. One of the discretely placed links could lead to your boxing site. Provide a link here to the philosophy site. (We can't abide rotten smells here and don't tolerate them, so take a cold shower every now and then if you find our rules are hot and stifling.)

Sports fans are like any other fans, fanatical. Often linking themselves to one team and losing objectivity in the process. Shouting, gnashing of the teeth, outpourings of blind hatred and an inability to think straight -- I suffer from all these things when thinking about Tottenham Hotspur. I hope to reach objectivity by reading this here forum.

Best of luck on a speedy recovery.

Enthusiasts are a different kettle of fish. I am a boxing enthusiast....[W]e take the risk and have the right to choose and once in a while we step outside what is acceptable and engage in a bit of the old, you know. Boxing is all about dominion, something that rears its head in all human relationships. Boxing gives it to us in the purest form.

Hmm...I'm a chess enthusiast myself, although I have yet to study much of the strategy. And yet, unlike in boxing, there does appear to be strategy. Chess also has a nice tendency to improve the minds of those that play it rather than destroying them. Chess is also about the struggle for dominion, and yet, as one indulges in "a bit of the old", one can sharpen one's mind and better equip it to deal with the new. I don't enjoy struggles for dominion with other men, since, for one thing, these seem mostly to be about achieving dominion and less about the struggle. I've said it before, but it's a pity there aren't more girls at my local chess club.

--RF

[Skul]

I see Jocks are not popular here. I am Ok with that judgement call as I cannot abide Scottish people.

I hope we won't have a problem...

[najib_daho]

Hello, I stumbled across your forum and have read some of the viewpoints expressed on here. I agree that in a free society, it is your right to dismiss the constant barrage of sporting news in the media - I agree, it can sometimes be overwhelming and most of the time pointless. I have to take issue with Fat Man's comments about boxing.

It may look to you that the participation in boxing requires no intellect but the facts are that anyone who has any success in a boxing ring needs to have a decent level of intelligence. It is something like a physical version of chess, your feet are moving, your hands are moving - throwing out feints to put off the opponent as well as punches, your senses are on full alert, your eyes concentrating on the opponent and of course your brain is focusing on the job at hand, offense as well as defence.

Of course, if you watch 'Rocky' and see Stallone running into Apollo Creed, throwing punches at a 100 miles an hour - your views on the above might not match the reality. The facts are that boxing requires a lot of intelligence to keep your head on your shoulders!

Also, sports are useful to a lot of people - let's take the athletes who participate in the paraolympics or any paraolympic sport? Playing sport (or being more active than the average joe at least) is a necessity to anyone in a wheelchair just to maintain some semblance of a 'normal' life - to get things done, to get from a to b for somebody in a wheelchair requires great upper body strength that is accquired through sport.

If your argument is that sport coverage is saturated through media sources, then I agree - if your argument is that sports are pointless, then I disagree (and we haven't even touched about competitveness - a huge part of the human condition - we can discuss this if you want. ) If your argument (or more to the point - Fat Man's) is that boxer's and boxing fan's are moronic, ugly and punch drunk... well, let's leave that to a later discussion. Salutations!

[Earl]

I see Jocks are not popular here. I am Ok with that judgement call as I cannot abide Scottish people.

I hope we won't have a problem...

Psssttt ... *whispering* Hey, Antigone. Skul is Scottish!

[Fat Man]

I see Jocks are not popular here. I am Ok with that judgement call as I cannot abide Scottish people.

I hope we won't have a problem...

Psssttt ... *whispering* Hey, Antigone. Skul is Scottish!

Personally, I think the Scottish people are really cool!

I like the kilts they wear.

If I were living Scotland I would be wearing kilts instead of pants. It's easier to make kilts in larger sizes than it is to make pants, especially since I have a 64 inch waist and 70 inches around the hips and 36 inches around the thighs.

And besides, I think we fat guys look good in kits, especially us pear-shaped fat guys with broader hips.

Too bad kilts aren't in style here in the USA.

[Earl]

Welcome to the forum, najib_daho. I think you will find that most of us here (in other words, the supporters of this forum) are more reasonable than might be apparent at first glance. If you should be offended by extreme comments by one of the members, just remember that each of us speaks for himself. We bring our own personal perspectives to this website, and they are not all completely identical. We even have different interests. Most of us are tolerant and reasonable. At least most of us try to be so. Just get to know us personally.

Three years ago I joined a health club and started working with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program. Actually, I've worked with three different trainers separately. My first trainer would occasionally vary the workout routine with instruction in one sport or another. He taught me some boxing. I was impressed how difficult it was to learn how to execute certain punches correctly. Of course, I had never been taught about boxing before. There is no doubt that the development and mastery of skills is involved in becoming proficient in a sport.

My point is that I'm not a bigot. I respect athletic achievement as one of many endeavors requiring dedication and self-discipline. As the old Sly and the Family Stone song says, "Diffferent strokes for different folks." Where I draw the line is when sports are imposed upon those who are not interested in them. I certainly won't go into that now, since it would take way too long to discuss.

I prefer to speak honestly with people on the Internet. I started posting in the forums of websites in February of last year. My attitudes in regards to posting have evolved over the months. You will find that I prefer not to rant, although I'm only human and still have the potential to lose my temper. I believe in being civil, and I try to reason with people whenever possible. I welcome sports fans who are civil. What the abusive sports fans fail to recognize is the fact that the civil sports fans who object to this website mount a more effective criticism than they do with their insults.

[Earl]

I see Jocks are not popular here. I am Ok with that judgement call as I cannot abide Scottish people.

I hope we won't have a problem...

Psssttt ... *whispering* Hey, Antigone. Skul is Scottish!

Wait a minute! I just got the joke, thanks to my wife. "Jock" is a Scottish name!

[recovering_fan]

Welcome to the forum, najib_daho!

First, let me just say that you are one of the most polite people I have run into here, and that is really saying something.
Forgive my reply, which I am afraid may be somewhat less polite.

I have to take issue with Fat Man's comments about boxing.

And, alas, I must take issue with some of yours.

Anyone who has any success in a boxing ring needs to have a decent level of intelligence. It is something like a physical version of chess [ ] , your feet are moving, your hands are moving - throwing out feints to put off the opponent as well as punches, your senses are on full alert, your eyes concentrating on the opponent and of course your brain is focusing on the job at hand, offense as well as defence.

I'm sure boxers are no dumbies, although getting smacked upside the head can't be too healthy. I personally don't look down on any athlete simply because he is an athlete. Just don't compare boxing to chess, because it falls short in a numbers of ways:

(1) Boxers do not need to control 16 fists or worry about 16 fists potentially hitting them.
(2) Boxers do not think 3-10 moves in advance, and if they do, they are not considering many scenarios simultaneously. Boxing is just too fast for that. Chess players spend minutes pondering some moves.
(3) Boxing involves a huge element of physical conditioning. Boxers spend months improving the state of their bodies. Chess players, on the other hand, are given standard playing pieces to "fight" with, so their conditioning is almost entirely mental. (Granted, it pays for a GM to stay in shape, because a game requires intense focus and stamina, but it does not have the same importance it has for a boxer.)

if your argument is that sports are pointless, then I disagree (and we haven't even touched about competitveness - a huge part of the human condition - we can discuss this if you want. )

I consider sports utterly pointless, and "condition" is the right word for your version of competitiveness. Fortunately, it is a treatable condition.

[Fat Man]

I have to take issue with Fat Man's comments about boxing.

It may look to you that the participation in boxing requires no intellect but the facts are that anyone who has any success in a boxing ring needs to have a decent level of intelligence.

If your argument (or more to the point - Fat Man's) is that boxer's and boxing fan's are moronic, ugly and punch drunk... well, let's leave that to a later discussion. Salutations!

Well, I take issue with anyone who thinks boxing requires any level of intelligence.

Only a complete moron would engage in something where one gets what's left of his shit-for-brains knocked out.

Sorry, But I have seen ex-boxers, and their speech is incoherent, they don't know what planet they're on most of the time, they slobber and drool, and some are even so far gone they crap in their britches.

Yeah! Boxing requires intelligence.

If you believe that, then I got a bridge to sell you, and perhaps I can interest you in some ocean front property in Arizona.

I also have the Empire State Building in my hip pocket.

Uh huh! Boxing requires intelligence.

BWWWUUUUUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Thanks! I needed a good laugh tonight.

[najib_daho]

Welcome to the forum, najib_daho. I think you will find that most of us here (in other words, the supporters of this forum) are more reasonable than might be apparent at first glance. If you should be offended by extreme comments by one of the members, just remember that each of us speaks for himself. We bring our own personal perspectives to this website, and they are not all completely identical. We even have different interests. Most of us are tolerant and reasonable. At least most of us try to be so. Just get to know us personally.

Three years ago I joined a health club and started working with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program. Actually, I've worked with three different trainers separately. My first trainer would occasionally vary the workout routine with instruction in one sport or another. He taught me some boxing. I was impressed how difficult it was to learn how to execute certain punches correctly. Of course, I had never been taught about boxing before. There is no doubt that the development and mastery of skills is involved in becoming proficient in a sport.

My point is that I'm not a bigot. I respect athletic achievement as one of many endeavors requiring dedication and self-discipline. As the old Sly and the Family Stone song says, "Diffferent strokes for different folks." Where I draw the line is when sports are imposed upon those who are not interested in them. I certainly won't go into that now, since it would take way too long to discuss.

I prefer to speak honestly with people on the Internet. I started posting in the forums of websites in February of last year. My attitudes in regards to posting have evolved over the months. You will find that I prefer not to rant, although I'm only human and still have the potential to lose my temper. I believe in being civil, and I try to reason with people whenever possible. I welcome sports fans who are civil. What the abusive sports fans fail to recognize is the fact that the civil sports fans who object to this website mount a more effective criticism than they do with their insults.

Hello Earl, thank you for the post and good to hear from you. I am glad to hear that even though you don't like sport, that you are involved in a healthy, active lifestyle. Bodybuilding is certainly a really good pastime to partake in and which builds self esteem and confidence, so fair play to you!

From what I can gather is that a lot of people on here (and I might be wrong but I have read a fair few posts on here) have a hatred of sport dating back to school. I understand why someone would hate sport because of school but it is wrong to hate something because of what happened at school. People dismiss education as well as sport because of experiences at school and it is a shame!

How many types of sport are played at school? Maybe three or four at the most? When there are hundreds of sports to choose from, it is a real shame to dismiss all sport as useless because one wasn't too good at basketball or football (soccer/rugby/cricket if you are British) at school. I do believe that all of us are able to excel to a very high level in at least one sport. The trick is to try every sport out there until you find the sport you excel at. I understand that isn't practical and in fact is impossible but my base belief is that everyone can be great at a sport (and thus have increased fitness, confidence and self esteem) and benefit from it.

That's different from 'I am sick of reading about Wayne Rooney and his daft wife in the newspapers' - a sentiment I agree with.

[najib_daho]

Welcome to the forum, najib_daho!

First, let me just say that you are one of the most polite people I have run into here, and that is really saying something.
Forgive my reply, which I am afraid may be somewhat less polite.

I have to take issue with Fat Man's comments about boxing.

And, alas, I must take issue with some of yours.

Anyone who has any success in a boxing ring needs to have a decent level of intelligence. It is something like a physical version of chess [ ] , your feet are moving, your hands are moving - throwing out feints to put off the opponent as well as punches, your senses are on full alert, your eyes concentrating on the opponent and of course your brain is focusing on the job at hand, offense as well as defence.

I'm sure boxers are no dumbies, although getting smacked upside the head can't be too healthy. I personally don't look down on any athlete simply because he is an athlete. Just don't compare boxing to chess, because it falls short in a numbers of ways:

(1) Boxers do not need to control 16 fists or worry about 16 fists potentially hitting them.
(2) Boxers do not think 3-10 moves in advance, and if they do, they are not considering many scenarios simultaneously. Boxing is just too fast for that. Chess players spend minutes pondering some moves.
(3) Boxing involves a huge element of physical conditioning. Boxers spend months improving the state of their bodies. Chess players, on the other hand, are given standard playing pieces to "fight" with, so their conditioning is almost entirely mental. (Granted, it pays for a GM to stay in shape, because a game requires intense focus and stamina, but it does not have the same importance it has for a boxer.)

if your argument is that sports are pointless, then I disagree (and we haven't even touched about competitveness - a huge part of the human condition - we can discuss this if you want. )

I consider sports utterly pointless, and "condition" is the right word for your version of competitiveness. Fortunately, it is a treatable condition.

Thank you for your post RF. I understsnd why you may not want to partake in boxing - but I will anwser all your posts one by one if you don't mind.


(1) Boxers do not need to control 16 fists or worry about 16 fists potentially hitting them.

Maybe not, but boxers have to deal with different styles every time they fight - from slick counterpunchers to hard hitting sluggers, where at times they are giving away height, reach, weight and experience - no two fights are the same thus no two gameplans are the same. Boxers, trainers and managers spend hours studying opponents on tapes and DVD's loking out for any weakness that might give them the edge.

(2) Boxers do not think 3-10 moves in advance, and if they do, they are not considering many scenarios simultaneously. Boxing is just too fast for that. Chess players spend minutes pondering some moves.

Like Chess, boxing is fought over a limited timeframe, there are 4,6,8,10 or 12 rounds in which to win a fight, if for example you lose the first round because you are knocked down - then you have the next three rounds (if it is a four rounder) to figure out to how to utilize your strengths to win the remaining rounds - so actually, you are thinking in advance, not just about your tactics but also your conditioning and your opponents conditioning as well as his tactics.

(3) Boxing involves a huge element of physical conditioning. Boxers spend months improving the state of their bodies. Chess players, on the other hand, are given standard playing pieces to "fight" with, so their conditioning is almost entirely mental. (Granted, it pays for a GM to stay in shape, because a game requires intense focus and stamina, but it does not have the same importance it has for a boxer.)

The reason there is such a high level of conditioning in boxing is because the mental aspect of the game is so intense, ask any fit man who has sparred a few rounds with a seasoned boxer - depsite being very fit - the non boxer is extremely fatigued after a few rounds because they are not conditoned mentally to hit and be hit. Being hit and to hit and avoiding punches is a mentally draining exercise. To think and to use your hands and feet takes a lot out of you. There aren't many - in fact - it is a rare boxer who is succesful and stupid.

I consider sports utterly pointless, and "condition" is the right word for your version of competitiveness. Fortunately, it is a treatable condition.

You have the right not to partake in sport and to live the life you want. But you are also going to have to bow to the knee to me in regards your views about boxing, you are obviously (which I am sure you will admit to) a layman - you are going to have to accept my views about boxing and the mental dexterity and intelligence needed to be successful - there is so much more to boxing than physical conditioning. Secondly - boxing - is a fantastic sport for building self confidence, self esteem and a practical way to protect yourself in todays world. That is the reason why so many young women take up boxing - add to the fact that boxing is one of the best ways to lose weight, become fit and make friends. A reason why the sport is so popular.