Introductions

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Hello fellow sports haters. I am new here in this forum, and I have been on many forums where there have been introduction threads, which is a good way to introduce one's self into a forum. It is for newbies (like myself), or even long time members who want to let people know new things about them, to introduce themselves into a forum. Try to keep it somewhat on topic most of the time, perhaps explain how you began to hate sports, as I made this forum in the "Sports Suck!" section.

Hello, I am Tim, and I hate sports. I am still in highschool, and surrounded by brainless jocks who would rather toss a sphere into the air or pick on nerds like me than read a book or look at their homework. I am a big science and literature nerd.

When I was just a little kid, I wasn't like most kids. I didn't play hockey, and I was the only kid I knew who didn't play hockey in their childhood. Heck, I didn't even know how to skate. I was never into sports. My parents decided to give me two options: Play sports, or join the Cubs (not sure if this word is used outside of Canada, but for those unfamiliar, Cubs are the Canadian version of Boy Scouts). My parents weren't athletic idiots trying to shove sports down my throat, I guess they just wanted me to be active, and didn't realize that there was other ways to be active. I didn't like either of the options, but I joined the Cubs and got out as soon as I could.

There were times were I became interested in particular sports. I went through a long phase were I was a skateboarding fanatic; my best friend became interested in basketball and because of hanging out with him, I was interested in basketball for a brief period; and I raced go-karts (not the fun, slow, easy to use go-karts, but the kind used in go-kart racing leagues) for two years. While I was ocassionally interested in some sports, I felt out of place because I didn't play sports like the rest. Whenever I was into a specific sport for a brief time, I would attempt to watch it on TV, but it was just as boring as hell. I couldn't stand it.

When I was in about grade six, the different social groups began to develop. I was very confused because I had friends on both sides of the social spectrum, many of them being very good friends who I had known for a long time. I didn't know what to do. The socially awkward group was quiet, and the group on the more social spectrum was more charismatic, so I began to hang out with them. I was friends with a lot of people from both groups. Eventually, conflict was created between the two groups. When I would be hanging out with the popular kids, they would begin to tease and taunt, and often beat up the less social kids. I was in an awkward situation, and I was I coward for not realizing who my true friends were instead of watching them get picked on. I was just a child at the time, and I thought it was just a joke most of the time, but I still could have done something. I didn't want to do anything bad to either groups, but mostly the more popular group, because at that school, the highest grade was grade six, and most kids would go to one school, while some, along with me, went to another school. The only people I knew who were going to the same school as me were the more social kids. So I decided to wait until grade seven because I thought that I would never have to be near both groups at the same time until highschool. By now, your probably wondering what a lot of this has to do with sports, but they were the popular kids because they played sports instead of trying to get an education. Since I didn't play sports like them, while I hung out with some of them, most of them would laugh at me when everyone was playing sports, and I was always picked last.

When I started grade seven, it did not get better. The portion of the popular group that went to the same school as me didn't have anybody to pick on, so they started to pick on me. They would use any opportunity that they could to insult me or harm me. I couldn't leave the group though, I didn't know anyone, and I thought it was better to go through their torment than to look like a loner. Eventually at recess they would hang out at the creek near the school, hidden from the sight of the teachers, so they could cause trouble without getting in trouble. They began to play brutal sports, for example, one game involved a person holding a giant log and chasing after everyone, a bit like tag, but instead of touching the person, you beat on them with the log until they either start to bleed or cry. Whenever I was the log bearer, they rigged it against me so they could throw rocks at me to prevent me from getting to them. Whenever they were the log bearers, they would specifically go after me, while everyone watched and cheered them on, and when I used tactics such as crossing the creek and going into areas with trees close together, causing it to be difficult to swing a log in the area, I was called a pussy or a faggot. There were also one on one matches with logs and sticks which had brutal results, and sometimes large scale versions of the same game, with everyone on teams. Near the end of grade seven, they began to do drugs. I needed to find a new group, it was one thing to be insulted and beaten, but now I could get in trouble for being near them for doing something I didn't do. I actually have a funny story: I found out that they did drugs when they pulled out a pipe and some marijuana while in the creek, and everyone crowded around taking turns smoking it. They were surprised about how strong it was. The next day they found out that it was not weed, but cat nip. But in all seriousness, I needed to get out. I was the only one in the group who didn't do it, and I had to go through their peer pressure and taunting.

In grade eight I found a good group for me. It was a group of nerds. To be honest, I don't even know how I decided to get in there, I didn't view myself as a nerd, and I didn't admire nerds at the time. I found out that I was a nerd when my friend called me a nerd, and I took it as an insult, but he just said that nerds were smart people who were intellectually superior to their peers. I researched it that night, and decided that it was a good thing to be a nerd. That was when I became a prominent nerd and sports hater. I had always been a nerd inside and disliked sports, but then I took it to a whole new level. I was picked on for being a self proclaimed nerd and sports hater, I was called faggot, pussy, gay, girl, and you get the point, all unrelated insults that had nothing to do with me. Two kids in particular where the worst two me, both of them hyper jocks. One of them was somewhat big, the other was pretty small but thought that he could fight me. Both of them listened to crappy new music. I actually got in a fight and won against the small guy, and had him at my mercy, however I decided that I would let him go, it wasn't worth my time. I began to defend my nerd friends, pulling them out of a fight and substiting myself into there, even when I new I wouldn't stand a chance. Just two years ago, I would have watched, but by then I was taking a stance. And it felt good, knowing that I sacfrificed myself for the good of my friends.

The Olympics were a very annoying time for me. Our school was divided into different "countries", and we had to face eachother in a mockup Olympics with different activities. And we had to miss precious class time. In the last hockey game in the Olympics with Canada vs. the US, if you heard my family, you would have called 911, or ran away, or both. They were screaming arrogantly. When I kindly told them to be quiet as I was trying to complete their homework, they told me how unpatriotic I was for not supporting Canada in one sports game.

Just a few weeks ago, when I was changing for gym class, some big arrogant senior jock who was high on testosterone came into the changeroom and threw my backpack onto the floor because it was on the bench where he wanted to sit, even though there was plenty of room elsewhere. All of my binders fell onto the floor and many important papers became disorganized. I muttered quietly "Fuckin' douchebag" and he came up to me and asked me if I called him a douchebag. He was about 200 pounds, and not because he was fat or tall, but because he was pumped, while I was about 125-130 pounds, and he was a few years older than me. He was exhibiting symptoms of steroid use, most prominently 'roid rage. I responded "Yes", and he slapped me in the face. He then told me not to talk to him, so I said "Yes, now calm down". I suppose my confirmation of not talking to him counted as talking to him, so he picked me up and threw me into a wall with hooks for backpacks and coats, with my face landing on the hooks. He then grabbed me and pushed me into a bench, causing me to fall over it. He then picked me up and told me not to talk to him again. I nodded, but considered provoking him into harming me further so I could land him a spot in jail for assault (however he had probably already done enough damage for me to charge him for assault). He then yelled at everyone who was staring that "He started it", an argument that a child would make when in trouble from his parents for fighting with his sibling, when in fact I did not start it. Everyone just laughed. They didn't do anything but laugh.

To be honest, I am a bit thankful that I had to go through all of what I explained, as it taught me a valuable moral lesson, and it taught me how to survive while facing adversity. These events, along with many others, explain why I am such a prominent nerd and sports hater. While I do not agree with all members on this website on some issues, for example I do not believe all sports fans and athletes should be killed, I do not believe capital punishment is appropriate for any criminal, I think that sports are a waste of time and money, and think that we would be much better without sports. However, we must rehabilitate and punish anyone who acts like the ape-like jocks if they torment others, even if it is for something unrelated to sports and they are not jocks. Anyways, I am glad enough that most of them will end up either homeless or in a low paying job, while many nerds who were picked on will often become sucessful people. I am just disappointed that an athlete can get a scholarship with decent grades just because he can throw a ball, but non-athletic kids have to work ten times harder than athletes to get into university.

And for a bit about me: I play bass in a band, and listen to old punk rock music (not what modern kids consider punk rock. They would consider Sum41 and even the Jonas Brothers to be punk). My favourite band, as my username suggests, is Bad Religion. For those of you who are unfamiliar, they are a punk band formed in 1980, well known for having songs with intelligent lyrics which discuss real problems and social issues that occur in the world. Greg Graffin, the singer of the band, is a professor at UCLA in evolutionary biology and ecology, and holds a Ph.D in geology, which just goes to show that they are an intelligent band. I get straight A's in all of my classes, in fact I got the best mark in all but one of my classes last semester.

Sorry if my post was a bit lengthy, it might take some endurance to read it.

[Fat Man]

Good evening HugeFanOfBadReligion

Let me be the first to welcome you to our forum.

And don't worry about long posts.

Sometimes I also like to post some rather long message myself, and then there is Earl and I_like_1981 who also like to make long posts, because we have a lot to say . . . . . unlike jocks and sports fans who usually say "DUH! HUH! HUH! HUH! I LIKE FOOTBALL! DUH!" or some retarded shit.

I have been a member here since Thursday, February 12, 2009 which was the 200th birthday of Charles Darwin.

To read my story, please go to the topic titled THE HORSE THIEVES AMONG US! which is at:
http://www.sportssuck.org/phpbb2/viewto ... f=1&t=4425

I'm afraid I'm a bit radical, a bit of an extremest when it comes to hating sports and jocks.

When I was 17 years old in 1969, I was beaten and raped by an older man, and back in the 1960s and 1970s nobody believed that a guy could get raped.

So, I do have a lot of mental health issues as a result of my violent past.

When You read my topic you will know where I'm comming from and why I take a more radical stance.

Yes, I believe in the death penalty for rape and for sexually molesting children, because having been raped can really screw you up in the head for life.

The perpetrator gets a certain number of years in prison. My rapist was never punished.

The victim gets a life sentence, and that is having to live with the memories and bad dreams for the rest or your life. One never completely gets over it. For the victim there is no parole, or no reprieve, you're in for life! Your given a life sentence of remembering and nightmares and wishing it had never happened.

Yes, I have freedom to walk the streets, to go where I please, but I'm still in a kind of prison. The prison is inside me, and its a prison you don't leave until you die and you're finally out of your body.

I'm 58 years old, and after all these years, memories still hurt.

Anyway . . . . .

Welcome to our crazy little forum.

Yo' all come back now! Ya hear?

[Earl]

Welcome, HugeFanOfBadReligion. (I hope you won't mind if I call you "Fan" for short.) I'm delighted to see that you're now using your account. You certainly don't need to apologize for submitting a long post. You are now reading a post from me that is insufferably long. I look upon this forum as an opportunity for the members to actually communicate with each other. Expressing one's views requires the composition of more than just a few sentences. Besides, I enjoy writing anyway.

Having an introductions thread is a great idea. So, I will tell you about myself and hope that the other members of the forum will bear with me, as they read comments that I've made before. I'm an American citizen. I'm a happily married 59-year-old man who is now retired. I'm also the father of two daughters, the younger of whom is now a university freshman. Last fall my older daughter started teaching
high-school math classes. I've never been a sports fan, but I am physically active. For over two years I've been a member of a local health club, working with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program. The experience has been quite beneficial for me, and I even persuaded one of our other members to start working out at a local gym.

I must admit that I was not a nerd when I was a boy. I did not deserve the honor of being called a nerd. I say that to my shame, because I did not always apply myself as much as I could have done. Sometimes I goofed off. I also had lousy study habits. By the time I was a senior in high school, my academic standing was above average; but I could have done so much better. Ideally speaking, I should have become an
iron-pumping nerd when I was a teenager. One thing the critics of nerds fail to recognize or deliberately overlook is the fact that excelling academically requires dedication and hard work, just as excelling in a sport does.

If I may digress for a moment, I commend you for applying yourself to your schoolwork. You won't regret it in the long run. And I certainly commend you for sticking up for your nerd friends, even when you knew that you would not win the fight. That takes courage. You have already shown that you're more of a man than any of the bullies, who really are nothing more than cowards.

When I was a young boy, I was fascinated with "herptiles" and loved watching scary movies. In other words, I was a typical boy. But I never had any interest in sports. Perhaps one reason why is because my father was decidedly nonathletic (although he was extremely successful in his chosen vocation, which was architecture). I remember him watching a football game every now and then, but he definitely was not a hardcore sports fan.

I first became exasperated with sports when I was in the fourth grade. The unsupervised recess that I had enjoyed was replaced with mandatory sports-centered P.E. This change was made in 1961, if I remember correctly. The claim was made that the purpose of P.E. was to promote physical fitness, but I soon realized that this claim was a hypocritical lie. In all the P.E. classes I was required to take from the time I was a fourth-grader in elementary school through junior high, no exercise programs were offered, not even for boys who were physically weak (as I was) or fat. I didn't even know there were exercise programs. During my last two years in elementary school, all of the guys in my classes were individually subjected to fitness tests to see how many push-ups and chin-ups we could do, how far could we jump, how fast we could run. The P.E. instructors knew which students were the most unfit, but said nothing to us about what we could do to get in shape. The reason for that was because they really were not interested in the nonathletic students; they only cared about promoting sports. The nonathletic kids were shortchanged.

In elementary school I was forced to play baseball, even though I hardly knew the rules of the game and certainly was not skilled enough. I would usually strike out every time I got up to bat. Quite understandably, my teammates would resent my presence, never mind that I did not even want to play baseball; and I resented being forced to participate in what was really only a form of recreation that did not interest me. The elementary school even set up a baseball game for all the parents to watch, which means that I was humiliated in front of a large audience. Remember that I had no choice. I had to play in this baseball game. It's a wonder that I don't hate baseball today.

What is amazing is that the assumption seems to have been made that all boys were athletes. Hardly any instruction was ever presented about sports. In one of my eighth-grade P.E. classes, I was forced to play basketball, even though I didn't know how the game was played. The result was a disaster, and I was made to feel like I was inferior. I thought that shooting a basketball was just thrusting the ball towards the hoop. But decades later (in the fall of 2007) my personal trainer at the health club, who sometimes varied the workout routine by introducing me to a sport, showed me how to shoot a basketball. I was amazed to learn that shooting a basketball was not just thrusting the ball, but was a skill involving certain finger and wrist movements that had to be learned by repetitive practice over time. None of my P.E. instructors had shown their students how to shoot a basketball. If I had been shown how, I could have learned easily.

Junior-high P.E. was so bad that I still remember which period was my P.E. class for each year. Every school day I dreaded going to the gym because I knew that I would be humiliated in some way. I will just say at this point that forcing nonathletic boys to participate in competitive team sports is a form of cruelty for which there is no justifiable reason. Traditional mandatory sports-centered P.E. has done much to encourage bullying. Over the years I've heard some real horror stories from middle-aged nonathletic men.

I hate to say this; but even though I've got a lot more to say, I'm going to have to stop writing now because time is short. I will continue my comments in another post. I think this one is long enough for you to read anyway.

Again, welcome to the forum. I hope you will continue to post with us.

[i_like_1981]

Hello there HugeFanOfBadReligion, and welcome to the boards. It pleases me very much to meet someone else who appreciates the greatness of old music! Your Bad Religion band - I may well check them out sometime. I'm into just about any sort of music that is old, but anything from after the 1980's... I can't really stand it! I feel that the 1990's were when music really did start to go down the pan with tuneless grunge bands like the Prodigy, talentless gangsta rappers like 2Pac and awful girly pop idols like S-Club 7 hitting the mainstream! But Bad Religion I may well give a chance sometime. Old punk songs are good in my book too. I'm into 70's punk like the Sex Pistols and The Damned and I also like some 80's metal like the early Metallica releases. So, you're already on my good side. Old music is what keeps my faith up in the talents of the world!

I'm also quite new to this website. I was posting on here under the Guest function back in November of last year but only signed up for a proper account on the forums in January. What convinced me to join this site and help defend the anti-sports cause was the actions of one moronic, intolerant user who put numerous harassing posts up on the board and tried to bring down the site by creating a false identity and using this false identity to try and become a moderator. This user was eventually banned but he'd done more than enough by that point. He really was the lowest, most obnoxious form of sports maniac I've ever seen. His actions only served to prove several of the website's opinions on jocks completely and utterly correct and this website is part of a good cause, standing up to these thugs and telling them not everybody shares their same moronic views. So I signed up for an account on a sports forum where he had posted a thread against this website trying to get similar sports fans to harass it as well and proceeded to attack that thread. But I received no maddened responses from the user or any other intolerant sports thugs. I actually entered into a real debate with a more intelligent, civilised sports fan who actually knew what he was talking about. That experience taught me not to tar all sports fans with the same brush as with every group of people, there are a variety of differing individuals, some of whom will represent the negative stereotypes and some of whom will not. But the harassing posts on this board were pretty shocking, actually. It disturbed me to see how much sports had overruled the mind of a young person and turned him into someone no better than a Nazi. Very Nazi-like characteristics, those posts had. This website is completely right - there are sports fans out there who really do despise anyone and anything different to them. I do feel it's important to distinguish between reasonable and unreasonable sports fans and not to stereotype them all as being the same but I am a great believer in giving what I get. If you give me abuse and attack my interests, I shall certainly throw it back at you. But if you wish to be reasonable and have a civil discussion in a hope of both sides reaching some sort of understanding of the other person's views and beliefs, then I shall definitely do as you please. As I have said many a time on this board, "an eye for an eye"!

Now then, a bit about myself. I am currently 28 years old but shall be turning 29 in two months and four days from now. I currently reside on my own in a flat in England. I shall not tell you where as there have been a spate of cyberbullies recently invading our website in the hope of finding personal information and contact details of users to harass and irritate said people and I do not wish to provide them with information for their cause. But I shall tell you that I did grow up in one of the most notorious places for youth violence - central London. Yes, my young years there were far from the best. As you may have expected, I was subjected to numerous bouts of physical, verbal and emotional abuse for not being very socially competent, for favouring academic work over physical activity and, of course, for sucking at sports. I especially despised sports played with hand-held implements like bats. Cricket was probably my worst sport. I also had a strong dislike for rough physical contact sports like rugby, as my poor build made me an easy, defenceless target for brutality rendered more acceptable in a sporting context. I shall not go into any of my stories here. I believe some of them are quite easy to guess. I have recounted a few of them on here before. But severe bullying does affect a person for many years. It will probably hinder a person in later life in some way. I can't say I've fully moved on yet, but I don't spend my whole life living in its consequences. I find it good to give new people a chance when you meet them and not to bear a grudge against all other people for the actions of completely unrelated characters in the past. This is why I like coming here - to talk with people of similar opinions to myself, to hear their stories and compare them with my own, to be around people who have not chosen to submit to the influence of the majority, like myself.

So, HugeFanOfBadReligion, welcome to the boards. I saw your Guestbook comments and I'm sure the people here are pleased to see a new member who is showing such an interest in contributing to the forums. We do not get a lot of activity here, as you know, so new members are always appreciated. I advise you to keep working hard at your studies at high school and keep listening to your old music. Remember this - major changes in the world were not brought about by submission to the crowd. Missing out socially in your younger years is more likely to mean you shall receive the reward in your adult years, when it is all about becoming the person you want to be. You are not alone in your dislike of sports. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to go along with the mindless herd, but there IS something wrong with believing it to be sinful NOT to go along with everyone else! Whatever happened to personal choice these days? Some people can be very intolerant indeed. But they shall regret it in later years when they're standing over a grill in a fast-food restaurant flipping slabs of meat!

I bid you a warm welcome here, enjoy your stay. And remember - do not betray the cause of old music! What we get in the charts these days is nothing but utter garbage. Society really has become materialistic and shallow if people care more about making money than producing high-quality music that shall be regarded as "classic" in later years. The modern world can be very discouraging for the interests of some. We would know.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Good evening HugeFanOfBadReligion

Let me be the first to welcome you to our forum.

And don't worry about long posts.

Sometimes I also like to post some rather long message myself, and then there is Earl and I_like_1981 who also like to make long posts, because we have a lot to say . . . . . unlike jocks and sports fans who usually say "DUH! HUH! HUH! HUH! I LIKE FOOTBALL! DUH!" or some retarded shit.

Hello Fat Man. I had already read your story, and I must say that it is very traumatizing just reading it. I really can't blame you at all for having an extremist point of view, you have gone through enough to be able to justify that point of view.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

I first became exasperated with sports when I was in the fourth grade. The unsupervised recess that I had enjoyed was replaced with mandatory sports-centered P.E. This change was made in 1961, if I remember correctly. The claim was made that the purpose of P.E. was to promote physical fitness, but I soon realized that this claim was a hypocritical lie. In all the P.E. classes I was required to take from the time I was a fourth-grader in elementary school through junior high, no exercise programs were offered, not even for boys who were physically weak (as I was) or fat. I didn't even know there were exercise programs. During my last two years in elementary school, all of the guys in my classes were individually subjected to fitness tests to see how many push-ups and chin-ups we could do, how far could we jump, how fast we could run. The P.E. instructors knew which students were the most unfit, but said nothing to us about what we could do to get in shape. The reason for that was because they really were not interested in the nonathletic students; they only cared about promoting sports. The nonathletic kids were shortchanged.

They got rid of your recess? Wasn't it required to have a recess in elementary school. I couldn't imagine having sports mandatory outside of PE class.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Hello there HugeFanOfBadReligion, and welcome to the boards. It pleases me very much to meet someone else who appreciates the greatness of old music! Your Bad Religion band - I may well check them out sometime. I'm into just about any sort of music that is old, but anything from after the 1980's... I can't really stand it! I feel that the 1990's were when music really did start to go down the pan with tuneless grunge bands like the Prodigy, talentless gangsta rappers like 2Pac and awful girly pop idols like S-Club 7 hitting the mainstream! But Bad Religion I may well give a chance sometime. Old punk songs are good in my book too. I'm into 70's punk like the Sex Pistols and The Damned and I also like some 80's metal like the early Metallica releases. So, you're already on my good side. Old music is what keeps my faith up in the talents of the world!

I'm sure you would like Bad Religion. They're still around today, and they've been releasing albums since they were formed. I would say if you want to check them out, you should listen to the albums Suffer, No Control, Against the Grain, or Generator. But then, it all depends on your music tastes on which album would be best for you, they've certainly gone through many changes in style over the years. Or you might not like any of their albums. Good to meet someone who dislikes new music like me!

[Earl]

I first became exasperated with sports when I was in the fourth grade. The unsupervised recess that I had enjoyed was replaced with mandatory sports-centered P.E. This change was made in 1961, if I remember correctly. The claim was made that the purpose of P.E. was to promote physical fitness, but I soon realized that this claim was a hypocritical lie. In all the P.E. classes I was required to take from the time I was a fourth-grader in elementary school through junior high, no exercise programs were offered, not even for boys who were physically weak (as I was) or fat. I didn't even know there were exercise programs. During my last two years in elementary school, all of the guys in my classes were individually subjected to fitness tests to see how many push-ups and chin-ups we could do, how far could we jump, how fast we could run. The P.E. instructors knew which students were the most unfit, but said nothing to us about what we could do to get in shape. The reason for that was because they really were not interested in the nonathletic students; they only cared about promoting sports. The nonathletic kids were shortchanged.

They got rid of your recess? Wasn't it required to have a recess in elementary school. I couldn't imagine having sports mandatory outside of PE class.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The recess that I had enjoyed in elementary school before I started the fourth grade had been largely unsupervised, which means that we were allowed to play games with other kids or just walk around and chat with other classmates. In other words, it was a time of relaxation. Above all, we were able to choose what we wanted to do.

What took the place of largely unsupervised recess when I was in the fourth grade was totally different. It was highly structured. There was no choice. All students had to play ball games (usually baseball) or participate in some kind of athletic contest. The only way that it differed from P.E. was that we did not go to a gym. But it was just as coercive. That's why I call this highly structured physical activity class that I had to take during my last two years in elementary school P.E. It was essentially the same as gym P.E., except it did not have a gym.

As I said before, none of the instructors of this gymless P.E. offered fitness programs for the nonathletic students in their charge or even instruction on how to perform better in whatever sport was being required of the students. The only thing these classes succeeded in doing was to make nonathletic boys feel ashamed of themselves without telling them what they could do about it. This is pure hypocrisy of the worst sort because it involved children getting hurt. Of course, junior-high P.E. was worse. Fortunately, when I was in high school, I did not have to take P.E. because I was a band student. I heard that the P.E. at my high school was downright hellish for nonathletic boys. And this is the way that kids should be encouraged to become physically active? What a joke!

What traditional mandatory sports-centered P.E. has done is to set athletic boys against their nonathletic classmates. Athletic prowess has become a phony standard of masculinity. Nonathletic boys have been socially stigmatized as supposedly being less manly, despite the fact that male homosexuals have always been involved in sports and that there have been men of great courage who never had any interest in sports. Traditional mandatory P.E. has caused bullying in the schools more than all the academic classes combined. Many people condone bullying, and some of the boys' P.E. coaches actually seem to encourage it. Instead of becoming fit, the nonathletic boys are actually discouraged from taking up any kind of physical activity. So, I have no patience with people who think that traditional sports-centered P.E. should be imposed on nonathletic kids. Do they want to hurt these kids? I think some of them do.

Finally, there now is a movement to reform P.E. in the United States. In recent years certain coaches who are actually decent have recognized that the old discredited approach to mandatory P.E. has shortchanged nonathletic boys. One such innovative program is PE4Life -- which does not involve participation in sports, but is actually an exercise program that offers a wide range of choice, which is essential (since individuals have different physical fitness needs). I'm sure there are other good programs as well. But the movement to reform P.E. does not have great support among coaches because, frankly, a lot of them (in my opinion) are numbskulls. Many of the people who incessantly bleat like sheep that all school children should have P.E. imposed upon them refuse to recognize that the old approach is not humane and, in fact, does not work. As I've said so many times before, I get more exercise in a single workout session than I ever did in an entire year of mandatory P.E. I know what I'm talking about because I've had both experiences.

What particularly angers me is that really the actual purpose of mandatory P.E. is not to promote physical fitness, but is to only promote sports. This is the first (but not the only) reason I came to dislike and eventually detest the sports culture. When I was a kid, what the hypocrits really wanted was to have winning high-school football teams. Well, since the athletic kids wanted to take P.E. anyway, the hypocrits could have accomplished their most cherished goal of having a winning high-school football team (of course, what about academic achievement) WITHOUT forcing nonathletic boys to take P.E. classes that not only were useless to them, but also frequently subjected them to bullying, which was totally unjustified.

Since I believe in tolerance, I'm actually quite reasonable about this issue. I favor retaining the old traditional sports-centered P.E. for the athletic kids and those who simply want to participate in sports AS AN ELECTIVE. Genuine physical fitness classes should be provided for nonathletic students taught by coaches WHO DO NOT LOOK DOWN ON NONATHLETES, as so many traditional boys' P.E. coaches seem to do. Otherwise, leave the nonathletic kids alone. Let their parents send them to a health club.

Well, Fan, I certainly hope you don't mind me submitting a post that is so long; but I feel passionately about this issue AND FOR GOOD REASON.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The recess that I had enjoyed in elementary school before I started the fourth grade had been largely unsupervised, which means that we were allowed to play games with other kids or just walk around and chat with other classmates. In other words, it was a time of relaxation. Above all, we were able to choose what we wanted to do.

I understand now. My experience in elementary school was similar, however we were not forced into sports by teachers, but it was just an enforcement by elementary school society. While there eventually were different groups by the end of elementary school, everyone in a certain grade would still be doing the same thing with eachother at recess. At least 95% of students of the same grade did the same activities at recess, regardless of their social status, it was just a norm. And of course it wasn't just sitting around and talking or studying, but playing sports. Usually it kickball or football. I was always one of the last people picked, and we were always teased because of it. By the time it got to the end of picking teams, the two captains would argue about who got who, and they weren't arguing because they wanted us on their team, but because they wanted us on the other team, we were a burden to be on their sports team. And no, I don't mind you submitting long posts. I enjoy reading a good post.

[Indurrago]

Welcome HugeFanofBadReligion. I hope you enjoy your stay here. I actually read your anti-bullying post first( Damn jocks!) but I have class soon I'll comment and read everyone's elses post in this thread later. Here's alittle summary of my experience with jock bullying in my highschool years. I was bullied for almost 3 years(I had the bad luck of being in the one class each year with the basterd for most of my highschool years) by the top-jock of the school; Regional state wrestling champ, and a football player the fricking works until I got fed up and tried to one-hand strangle him after he made a racial insult at me, he quickly backed off after that. Heh, his little titles and championship didn't mean much against a pissed of nerd.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Welcome HugeFanofBadReligion. I hope you enjoy your stay here. I actually read your anti-bullying post first( Damn jocks!) but I have class soon I'll comment and read everyone's elses post in this thread later. Here's alittle summary of my experience with jock bullying in my highschool years. I was bullied for almost 3 years(I had the bad luck of being in the one class each year with the basterd for most of my highschool years) by the top-jock of the school; Regional state wrestling champ, and a football player the fricking works until I got fed up and tried to one-hand strangle him after he made a racial insult at me, he quickly backed off after that. Heh, his little titles and championship didn't mean much against a pissed of nerd.

Yes, I love it when jocks think they can push us around, but we prove them wrong. I'm actually lucky enough that I don't see much of my regular bullies anymore except for when I run into them in the hallways, at breaks, or in elective classes such as tech, the arts, or PE, because most of them are in applied classes (for those of you unfamiliar with the term applied and academic classes, for classes such as science, English, French, geography and other academic-related subjects, students have the option to take the applied or academic course for each subject, applied being for slower, less intelligent kids, academic being for kids who can keep up with a good amount of schoolwork and are planning on going to university) while I'm in academic classes. But I still do have my run-ins with them, most of them being unpleasent.

[Earl]

(I just came home from another workout session with my personal trainer at the local health club; and I'm exhausted, as I should be. Today was an upper-body day.)

Thanks, Fan, for saying that you enjoy reading long posts. I'm sorry I haven't submitted a long one this time.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the "team picking" routine. That's what I like about the traditional approach to mandatory P.E. It's so adept at teaching empathy for others. You see, subjecting the nonathletic kids to this sort of routine helps to build character. Those wonderful characters who devised sports-centered mandatory P.E. really wanted to encourage the nonathletic kids to become physically active so they would be healthy. They truly were looking out for the well-being of these unfortunate kids. Yes, sir, the extent of their compassion is overwhelming. Everyone should learn from their example.

Do you know what? I think every single high-school student should be required to take ballet lessons for three years. Don't you? Furthermore, every single high-school student should be required to learn how to bake cakes, draw blood from medical patients' arms, and play a piano. Why not? Don't you think this is reasonable? It's just as reasonable as forcing nonathletic boys in MTSCPE (mandatory traditional
sports-centered P.E.) classes to participate in competitive team sports.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Do you know what? I think every single high-school student should be required to take ballet lessons for three years. Don't you? Furthermore, every single high-school student should be required to learn how to bake cakes, draw blood from medical patients' arms, and play a piano. Why not? Don't you think this is reasonable? It's just as reasonable as forcing nonathletic boys in MTSCPE (mandatory traditional sports-centered P.E.) classes to participate in competitive team sports.

I think MTSCPE is even less reasonable than that. At least ballet isn't centered on being some tough masculine jock being high on testosterone, and baking a cake doesn't teach that women belong in the kitchen to cook while men do the hard work, and knowing about medical treatment would be quite useful, and drawing blood couldn't be worse than disecting a frog, could it, the only problem being the risk of harming the patient, and playing the piano would be great for all music students to be somewhat familiar with as knowing about piano is almost necessary to know about some parts of music theory.

[Earl]

Oops! Sorry. I hope you realize that I was being sarcastic. I wasn't knocking any of those activities. (By the way, I once read an interesting article about a professional football player who took ballet lessons. He ended up with sore muscles and, if I remember correctly, was quite surprised by this. But the fact of the matter is that no sport exercises all the muscles of the body. If you would, imagine a behemoth in a tutu. ) The point is that I don't knock any extracurricular high-school activities, including football. The point I was making is that all of these activities are preferences and that someone's preference (sports, in this case) should not be imposed upon those who aren't interested in them (which is exactly what is done in MTSCPE classes). I was saying this was unreasonable (and it is, of course). I also think there's something strange about an activity (sports) that is supposed to be a form of recreation being imposed upon other students as if it is essential to every student's education. Since when did a form of recreation become a demanding obligation to be forced upon all students? Whatever happened to the concept of choice? To some people I would say, if you like sports, fine; but don't try to cram sports down the throats of kids who don't like them. But some people want this to be done because it gives an opportunity for nonathletic kids to be bullied. After all, athletes are better than nonathletes. (I'm being sarcastic again. )

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Oops! Sorry. I hope you realize that I was being sarcastic. I wasn't knocking any of those activities. (By the way, I once read an interesting article about a professional football player who took ballet lessons. He ended up with sore muscles and, if I remember correctly, was quite surprised by this. But the fact of the matter is that no sport exercises all the muscles of the body. If you would, imagine a behemoth in a tutu. ) The point is that I don't knock any extracurricular high-school activities, including football. The point I was making is that all of these activities are preferences and that someone's preference (sports, in this case) should not be imposed upon those who aren't interested in them (which is exactly what is done in MTSCPE classes). I was saying this was unreasonable (and it is, of course). I also think there's something strange about an activity (sports) that is supposed to be a form of recreation being imposed upon other students as if it is essential to every student's education. Since when did a form of recreation become a demanding obligation to be forced upon all students? Whatever happened to the concept of choice? To some people I would say, if you like sports, fine; but don't try to cram sports down the throats of kids who don't like them. But some people want this to be done because it gives an opportunity for nonathletic kids to be bullied. After all, athletes are better than nonathletes. (I'm being sarcastic again. )

Yes, don't worry. I was aware that it was sarcasm. I was just pointing out that while that would be quite problematic, it would not be nearly as problematic as mandatory sports.