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School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:39 am
by Fat Man
It appears that the Louisiana Legislature might allow the teaching of creationism in the high school science class.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/991539 ... wAll=y&c=y
NEWS
School Board might OK teaching creationism

* By VIC COUVILLION
* Special to The Advocate
* Published: Jul 24, 2010 - Page: 4B

LIVINGSTON â?? The Livingston Parish School Board will begin exploring the possibility of incorporating the teaching of â??creationismâ? in the public school systemâ??s science classes. During the boardâ??s meeting Thursday, several board members expressed an interest in the teaching of creationism, an alternative to the study of the theory of evolution, in Livingston Parish public school classrooms.

The discussion came up during a report on the pupil progression plan for the 2010-11 school year, delivered by Jan Benton, director of curriculum. Benton said that under provisions of the Science Education Act enacted last year by the Louisiana Legislature, schools can present what she termed â??critical thinking and creationismâ? in science classes.

Board Member David Tate quickly responded: â??We let them teach evolution to our children, but I think all of us sitting up here on this School Board believe in creationism. Why canâ??t we get someone with religious beliefs to teach creationism?â? Fellow board member Clint Mitchell responded, â??I agree â?¦ you donâ??t have to be afraid to point out some of the fallacies with the theory of evolution. Teachers should have the freedom to look at creationism and find a way to get it into the classroom.â?

Board President Keith Martin, while reminding the members that a decision had been made in the past not to teach creationism, suggested that now might be the time to re-examine the issue. Martin said that one problem with the teaching of creationism versus evolution is that, â??You donâ??t want two different teachers teaching two different things.â?

Martin, noting that discipline of young people is constantly becoming more of a challenge for parents and teachers, agreed: â??Maybe itâ??s time that we look at this.â? When Martin suggested that the board appoint a committee to study the possibility of introducing creationism into the classroom, his opinion met with general, if unofficial approval.

â??We shouldnâ??t just jump into this thing, but we do need to look at it,â? Martin said. â??The American Civil Liberties Union and even some of our principals would not be pleased with us, but we shouldnâ??t worry about the ACLU. Itâ??s more important that we do the correct thing for the children we educate.â?

The board then unanimously endorsed Bentonâ??s Progression Plan.

Before the vote, Benton presented some highlights of the lengthy document.

She told the board that for the coming school year 177 days of instruction are scheduled for all schools.

Kindergarten through eighth-grade students are expected to attend a minimum of 167 of those days, leaving each student with 10 days of unexcused absences.

The academic year for high schools is divided into two 83.5 day semesters and students are allowed five unexcused absences per semester.

Students who aspire to follow a career diploma track will have to meet a long list of requirements this year, Benton explained. She said that parents who wish to enroll their children in the career diploma program must approve of the application.

A studentâ??s behavior record will also be one of the criteria examined before entrance into the program is approved.

At the same meeting, the board voted unanimously to name Alvin Fairburn & Associates as the architects and design specialists for improvements to the football field at Denham Springs High School.

Board Member Buddy Mincey Jr., who represents the Denham Springs area, said that installing an all-weather artificial surface on the playing field and other improvements would cost between $700,000 and $900,000.

Mincey said that the Denham Springs High School athletic department had started a fundraising campaign to assist with the cost of the new field and other improvements and that the schoolâ??s boosters have agreed to raise $200,000 for the project.

The School Board will cover the remainder of the expenses.

Mincey said that the Denham Springs High field is used by many groups and that the field â??has taken a beating over the past several years.â?

Improving the field is the No. 2 priority among needed improvements to Denham Springs High, Mincey said, one notch below construction of a new technology and science building.

The School Board approved construction of the technology and science building at an earlier meeting.

Mincey said that the new field and other stadium improvements should be completed by May.
Yeah, I guess the idea is to "teach both sides of the controversy" and "let the students decide" when it comes to Evolution or Creationism.

I SAY ABSOLUTELY NOT!

In a geography class, should we let the students decide whether to embrace the flat earth concept or the round earth concept?

Should we let students decide Whether Astronomy or Astrology is the correct view?

Or should we also teach Alchemy in a Chemistry class?

Again I say . . .

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

We don't teach magic in a physics class, so Creationism should not be taught in a science class that teaches evolution. because Creationism is NOT science!

There is absolutely no scientific evidence for creationism but there is plenty of evidence for Evolution.

Recent studies of the Genome has confirmed this. DNA shows that we share a common ancestry with chimpanzees. DNA testing can be used in a court of law to prove whether or not you're the parent of a child, and DNA evidence collected at a crime scene can show whether or not you committed the crime.

So, if DNA can prove if whether or not you're the parent of a child, and your ancestry can be traced back by comparing DNA samples, then DNA evidence that shows our common ancestry with chimps can also be legally proven in a court of law!

And please don't ask me "if we are descendant of apes than why are their still apes?" because I can just as easily ask if most Americans are descendant of Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?

So, in answer to the question "why are there still apes?" it's because we still are apes!

Image

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:14 am
by i_like_1981
Oh right. By the look of the thread title I presumed you were against creationism being taught in schools at all. Well, there is a place where it should be taught, and that's in RE (Religious Education). I'm sure you have this class over in America as well but it might have a different name. Creationism belongs in the RE curriculum and that's where it should stay, but I agree that it should not be allowed to become part of the science curriculum. Science is where facts are taught. RE is a subject where people are educated on beliefs and students may be allowed to use their own mind on what they think is right and what they don't believe in. Creationism is also a belief, and there is more hard evidence for the side of evolution. Therefore evolution is what they should be concentrating on in science classes; it abides by the term "science" more than creationism does. Both creationism and evolution should be taught in schools but they do not belong in the same subject. Creationism is part of religious education and evolution is part of science. It should stay that way, I think.

Oh, and I do like that picture. :D

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:10 pm
by HugeFanOfBadReligion
Like i_like_1981 said, creationism doesn't belong in the science curriculum, and should stay in religious education. I believe they shouldn't teach creationism or religion in schools until kids reach the age of reason (although it's hard to define "the age of reason"), because I believe I read in a book somewhere that 1 in 12 children escape their parent's religion. I believe people should have the freedom to believe what they want to believe, but I think they should have the ability to choose what they believe instead of just automatically believing in what their parents believe.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:09 pm
by Safety
Our school doesn't really have a religious curriculum. We have Mythology, but that's about it. I think religion is interesting. Especially since I have internet friends from all over the world with different religious backgrounds. I wouldn't mind learning more about religion.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:52 pm
by i_like_1981
Safety wrote:Our school doesn't really have a religious curriculum. We have Mythology, but that's about it. I think religion is interesting. Especially since I have internet friends from all over the world with different religious backgrounds. I wouldn't mind learning more about religion.
Well, yes, learning religion is fine in my book. People need to be educated on the variety of beliefs and cultures that exist in our world or we'll be at risk of becoming a bit xenophobic. It happens over here a bit in Britain where people can be unwilling to accept and tolerate the cultures of foreigners and that's why we've had and do have far right political parties trying to make their stands over here. Let's just hope they go nowhere. But this thread is about creationism, which is more a matter of what people believe, being unnecessarily added to the science curriculum, which should be based more on hard facts.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:25 pm
by Lewis
i_like_1981 wrote:Oh right. By the look of the thread title I presumed you were against creationism being taught in schools at all. Well, there is a place where it should be taught, and that's in RE (Religious Education). I'm sure you have this class over in America as well but it might have a different name. Creationism belongs in the RE curriculum and that's where it should stay, but I agree that it should not be allowed to become part of the science curriculum. Science is where facts are taught. RE is a subject where people are educated on beliefs and students may be allowed to use their own mind on what they think is right and what they don't believe in. Creationism is also a belief, and there is more hard evidence for the side of evolution. Therefore evolution is what they should be concentrating on in science classes; it abides by the term "science" more than creationism does. Both creationism and evolution should be taught in schools but they do not belong in the same subject. Creationism is part of religious education and evolution is part of science. It should stay that way, I think.

Oh, and I do like that picture. :D

Best regards,
i_like_1981
I agree with 1981 (Wow, sounded like Gordon Brown for a second there)

When I did Biology for my G.C.S.E.'s we were taught about evolution and there was no mention of religion anywhere in the Biology class and this was from a CofE school, where we went to chapel twice a week.

In my AS for Philosophy and Ethics we would look at things like the Design Arguement, Evil and Suffering and other things and we would debate the existance of God.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:58 pm
by The Imperialist
If they want to teach creationism, do it in churches where the blind mases who go there will listen to what they want to listen. Hey, even the home of all the various churches do not do this (I do not hear Russia's Orthodox church forcing creationism, I do not here the Vatican enforcing Rome to teach creationism...)


But Lewis, Church of England is VERY secular (and I remember one of their official edict is that the Bible is a spiritual tool, not something that actually describes physical events, or nature)

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:51 am
by Fat Man
I believe that is was Galileo himself who said, the Bible teaches how to go to heaven, NOT how the heavens go.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now, I would not have any objections over a high school offering a course on Theology.

Then they could discuss many versions of creation stories from many religions, and also how the creation account compares to evolution and how many religious doctrines compare to the facts of science.

But it would have to be done with the understanding that not one particular doctrine is promoted over another doctrine.

Again, a Theology course should not endorse any religion over another, because that would be indoctrination.

Schools are to educate, and NOT indoctrinate.

But creationism should absolutely be kept out of the sciences classes.

Image

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:19 pm
by Safety
Are all of you guys atheists?...

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:08 pm
by HugeFanOfBadReligion
Safety wrote:Are all of you guys atheists?...
I don't believe in a deity, however I do not consider myself because I don't understand the purpose of labelling a person based on what he doesn't do. To paraphrase an argument that I first heard from Richard Dawkins, you don't call a person who doesn't believe in astrology a nonastrologer, so why do we call people who don't practice theism atheists?

I can think of at least one more member who doesn't believe in a deity, one member is converting to Judaism, at least one member is Christian, and there are several other faiths practised by members on this board.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:25 pm
by The Imperialist
My religions are Buddhism and Shinto. I believe in A LOT of deities, but I still believe science works. Unlike idiot Christian fundamentalist who aren't really being true to the Bible, but oh well.

The deity I worship most, is probably Hachimanshin, who is a War deity, in order so he can protect me in my struggle.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:39 pm
by Lewis
Safety wrote:Are all of you guys atheists?...
I'm an Agnostic (brought up CofE). I'm not really sure about God existence, but if He does exist I imagine He would be a bit disappointed with the world.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:46 pm
by i_like_1981
Lewis wrote:
Safety wrote:Are all of you guys atheists?...
I'm an Agnostic (brought up CofE). I'm not really sure about God existance, but if He does exist I imagine He would be a bit disapointed with the world.
I'm the same. There's convincing arguments for and against God's existence. Yes, science does explain a lot of the reason regarding why we are here today, with its explanations on evolution and the formation of the Earth, but such things as the working eye are so intricately designed that they can't just have come about by chance. Was there some sort of a creator? The lack of definite answers to the big questions allows the realm of belief to exist in this world. If all was clear and explainable, we'd either not have religion at all or one universal religion which everybody followed.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:15 pm
by Earl
Safety wrote:Are all of you guys atheists?...
I guess I'm the odd man out, but I don't mind. I'm a member of a church of Christ. At the risk of being hooted off the board, I believe in the Genesis account of creation.

Re: School Board might OK teaching creationism! This Sucks!

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:19 pm
by The Imperialist
Do you believe there is scientific basis for the Genesis story?