Two threads you may be interested in seeing.

[ChrisOH]

Besides, they're not exactly formidable opponents in terms of intelligence. It's just the usual shit: "HAHAHA SPORTS HATIN FAGS U ALL SUCK!"

SPORTS RULZ...I LUV FOOOTBAL...YOU BUNCHA FAGS U ALL SUK....GO DAWGZ GONNA GO ALL THE WAY DIS YEAR!!!!!!

Did I do a good enough imitation there?

[Earl]

Yes, you did.

Both of you remind me of our beloved nemesis Samdaman of times past. Not to mention mike_the_pain_train AKA choo-choo_boy (even though he/she undoubtedly was a fake).

[Earl]

I swear I'm going to gain a reputation in this forum as an Andyphile, but I feel compelled to comment on this old post. I realize that Fat Man was understandably agitated when he posted these comments, but I still feel the need to respond to them.

Andy gets to eat T bone and sirloin stakes while handicapped children in boarding homes only get to eat mashed potatoes with dried liver powder.

Andy gets to drink beer and wine while handicapped children in boarding homes are forced to drink vinegar and hot sauce.

Andy gets to have a peaceful night's sleep while handicapped children in boarding homes a woke up in the middle of the night with electric shocks, and are administered electric shocks randomly through out the day.

Andy has it real good, because he's a jock, and our society falls on it's collective ass for jocks while disposing of handicapped children like garbage.

That's why I hate Andy's guts!

With all due respect to Fat Man (who is a personal friend of mine), I must say that there is no logical connection between society's exaltation of athletes in one sport or another and the plight of handicapped children in boarding homes. Sports don't need to be glorified in order for society to fail in its obligation to care for and protect the most defenseless and helpless among us. Not that I'm an authority on the subject, but were sports ever glorified to a particularly great degree in Czarist Russia? I don't get the impression that sports were pushed to a great degree in that society, yet there was horrendous social injustice of all sorts. (By the way, I'm not saying that Communism with its even greater lack of freedom and its secret police terror was an improvement.)

Fat Man, your sense of injustice at the way handicapped children are treated is commendable, as well as understandable. Child abuse of any kind should be vigorously prosecuted, wherever it occurs. Sometimes sensitive people who are outraged over injustice need to find a target for their anger, but a convenient target is not always available. The anger you feel towards Andy is misdirected. Andy is simply a decent kid who wanted to play football (and, incidentally, had every right to do so). Yes, society places an overemphasis on sports; but Andy is not responsible for that anymore than he is responsible for the plight of handicapped children.

[Fat Man]

I swear I'm going to gain a reputation in this forum as an Andyphile, but I feel compelled to comment on this old post. I realize that Fat Man was understandably agitated when he posted these comments, but I still feel the need to respond to them.

Andy gets to eat T bone and sirloin stakes while handicapped children in boarding homes only get to eat mashed potatoes with dried liver powder.

Andy gets to drink beer and wine while handicapped children in boarding homes are forced to drink vinegar and hot sauce.

Andy gets to have a peaceful night's sleep while handicapped children in boarding homes a woke up in the middle of the night with electric shocks, and are administered electric shocks randomly through out the day.

Andy has it real good, because he's a jock, and our society falls on it's collective ass for jocks while disposing of handicapped children like garbage.

That's why I hate Andy's guts!

With all due respect to Fat Man (who is a personal friend of mine), I must say that there is no logical connection between society's exaltation of athletes in one sport or another and the plight of handicapped children in boarding homes. Sports don't need to be glorified in order for society to fail in its obligation to care for and protect the most defenseless and helpless among us. Not that I'm an authority on the subject, but were sports ever glorified to a particularly great degree in Czarist Russia? I don't get the impression that sports were pushed to a great degree in that society, yet there was horrendous social injustice of all sorts. (By the way, I'm not saying that Communism with its even greater lack of freedom and its secret police terror was an improvement.)

Fat Man, your sense of injustice at the way handicapped children are treated is commendable, as well as understandable. Child abuse of any kind should be vigorously prosecuted, wherever it occurs. Sometimes sensitive people who are outraged over injustice need to find a target for their anger, but a convenient target is not always available. The anger you feel towards Andy is misdirected. Andy is simply a decent kid who wanted to play football (and, incidentally, had every right to do so). Yes, society places an overemphasis on sports; but Andy is not responsible for that anymore than he is responsible for the plight of handicapped children.

Good morning Earl.

Normally I get up at 7:00 AM, take my medications, then I lay down until 10:00 AM, then get up, and then I take a shower at 11:00 AM before my health care provider comes at 12:30 PM.

But I'm up a little earlier than usual. I got up at 5:30 AM this morning.

I'm having some problems with my left knee. I wake up in the middle of the night with pain in my left knee. Sometimes rolling over and laying in a different position helps, but sometimes not. Also, my crippled up left wrist has been hurting more then usual.

OK, now getting back to the subject of Andy Candy!!!

What if Andy Candy had been in a car accident, as I was, when I was 4 years old? What if Andy Candy had a crippled up knee and as a result, was lousy at sports when he was going to school.

I would venture to say, that for Andy Candy, his life would not be so sweet for him as it is now.

He comes into these forums with his authoritarian attitude which is typical of jocks even when they're polite, and the first thing he dose is to criticize me, and requests that we all be civil.

But on that very same day, he posts at another forum on boxing, all about these forums and invited people to FLAME ON!

So, all this time, Andy Candy was a back stabber . . .



. . . And . . .



. . . a liar by the town clock!

So, I don't believe anything he has said in the past.

Again, I must ask, what if Andy Candy had a crippled up knee like I had when he was in school? Would he still be allowed to excel academically?

Me thinks not!

Oh wait! He does have another talent he can fall back on! He has some musical talent!

He is so two-faced he can sing a duet all by himself!!!

And he can also play on the linoleum!!!

OK, you know the old expression that was used way back in the late 19th century or early 20th century, describing a young lady as "a rag, a bone, and a hank of hair" an old expression that is no longer used now.

Well, if Andy Candy were dating a young lady, she would be the proverbial "rag, a bone, and a hank of hair", and he would be, a brag, a groan, and a tank of air!!!

No, but I'm sorry, I really can't have any admiration for Andy Candy because he is just another over privileged jock who has had it way too good and way too easy for him.

He has had his whole life handed over to him, served up on a silver platter because he's a jock!

I had my life all fucked up, and all privileges taken away because I'm a cripple!

I was born in 1951 only 6 years after World War II ended, so didn't we just defeat the NAZIS not so long ago when I was going to school in the early 1960s??? Eh?

Apparently not! The NAZIS exterminated people with physical handicaps and here in the USA, children with physical handicaps could be denied an education.

I think I know what became of some of the NAZI war criminals who were never caught and brought to trial.

They had their names changed, had their faces surgically altered, immigrated into the USA under false pretenses, and became PE coaches in our schools!

Sorry, but I don't have any respect for jocks. I don't care if some jock is polite, and was never a bully, I still don't have any respect.

I'm a rude, impolite, sarcastic fat bitch, and I spit on NAZI corroborators!

And that is what all people involved in sports are to me! NAZI corroborators!

I'm not in a good mood right now.

My crippled up left knee and my fractured left wrist is causing me some pain this morning. I couldn't get very much sleep last night because of it.

And the pain in my left knee mocks me!

It serves as a constant reminder of my having been suspended from school because I failed to climb a stupid rope in the gymnasium.

My life is fucked up, and well . . . . . our intrepid hero Andy Candy is going overseas, and his gift to humanity will be used bicycles!

WWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

He going off to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic!

Yeah, our country is going down the crapper. The quality of education in our schools is going down the crapper! Our economy is going down crapper!

Ah! But we will always have sports, despite everything going down the crapper.

So, would anybody here care to join me in a game of shuffle board . . . . .



. . . . . on the deck of the Titanic???

[Earl]

Thanks for not getting mad at me.

I'm having some problems with my left knee. I wake up in the middle of the night with pain in my left knee. Sometimes rolling over and laying in a different position helps, but sometimes not. Also, my crippled up left wrist has been hurting more then usual.

I'm very sorry you've been experiencing constant pain. Has any doctor told you if there is anything you can do about it?

But on that very same day, he posts at another forum on boxing, all about these forums and invited people to FLAME ON!

Actually, he posted on that webpage the day before he started posting in our forum. This is not germane, I guess; but it was not the boxing forum. Nothing came of it, anyway. The reaction he received on that webpage was sparse and next to nothing.

So, all this time, Andy Candy was a back stabber . . .

Perhaps he had lost his temper over the ridiculous way he was treated in the Guestbook, but relented. Hey, I've lost my temper before online. I'm sure there are a number of posts at several websites that I would take back, if I could.

Again, I must ask, what if Andy Candy had a crippled up knee like I had when he was in school? Would he still be allowed to excel academically?

Me thinks not!

The world has changed since we were teenagers. Thanks to the Americans With Disabilities Act, handicapped children today receive many aids and helps in the public schools. Just ask Mrs. Earl (a former high-school math teacher who, incidentally, is legally blind -- a physical handicap, by the way) and Earlette No. 1 (who currently is still a high-school math teacher). They could give you all the details.

Oh wait! He does have another talent he can fall back on! He has some musical talent!

He is so two-faced he can sing a duet all by himself!!!

And he can also play on the linoleum!!!

OK, you know the old expression that was used way back in the late 19th century or early 20th century, describing a young lady as "a rag, a bone, and a hank of hair" an old expression that is no longer used now.

Well, if Andy Candy were dating a young lady, she would be the proverbial "rag, a bone, and a hank of hair", and he would be, a brag, a groan, and a tank of air!!!

I sincerely find your humor to be funny, and I'm not being sarcastic. I chuckled when I read this.

No, but I'm sorry, I really can't have any admiration for Andy Candy because he is just another over privileged jock who has had it way too good and way too easy for him.

He has had his whole life handed over to him, served up on a silver platter because he's a jock!

My intention is not to put Andy on a pedestal, but I must remind you that he's had to work hard to maintain a high GPA. He's had a lot of demands on his time, attending difficult academic classes as well as playing on the football team. I would imagine that takes up a lot of time.

You should not assume that every jock has a good life. My sister attended a college in Colorado during the first half of the 1960s decade. Before I continue, I should point out that she was not a sports fan; but she did love people. She included athletes among her friends. Several of the hockey players came from backgrounds of abuse. One of them had taken up sports as a defense against his physically abusive father. I may have mentioned one of the athletes in particular in a post more than a year ago, I guess. He was on both the hockey team and the football team. He had been subjected to cruel emotional abuse by his father and had therefore become a pacifist in order to manage his anger. He was still hurting a great deal emotionally over the way his father had mistreated him, and he was afraid to get married because he feared becoming a father who would end up abusing his own children (a fear that I believe was unjustified). Had it not been for his hang-ups, he might have become my first brother-in-law; and my sister would not have remained single, as she has to this very day. The guy clearly had difficult problems of his own. His life wasn't easy. Just playing hockey wasn't easy because of all the injuries.

Fat Man, you don't always know what goes on in another guy's life. You've said that you're jealous of Andy, and I can relate to that. When I was a senior in high school, I was seeing a psychologist, who put me in a therapy group (where I met two of my best friends, both of whom have since passed away). One of the other guys was good-looking (with a rugged physique) and taller than me. He looked down on himself because he had an undescended testicle. Yet I was still jealous of him. Since I was scrawny, I would have been willing to trade places with him. But within two years he fried his mind with drugs. Never recovered. Forgotten in a nursing home somewhere, he probably died years ago.

I had my life all fucked up, and all privileges taken away because I'm a cripple!

Your life was messed up because your stepfather was an evil, abusive man. Your mother, who was also beaten by him, did all she could. But what you needed was a decent man for a stepfather, and what she needed was a decent man for a husband. If you had had a supportive family life back home, you could have survived all the problems you had at school.

The only point I was making in my previous post was that you were making an illogical connection.

[i_like_1981]

I understand Andy shouldn't be resented just because he's lucky in life. He is actually trying to give back to the world that has given him a lot, by opting to do his charitable work in Africa. I don't doubt his claims on that issue, and I wish him all the best with that. But I strongly agree with Fat Man's views about him being a backstabber, because let's be honest here, he wanted to come across as an absolutely flawless, fully admirable character in his posts on this website. He wanted us to believe that he wasn't the sort who WOULDN'T resort to calling us "fags", the stereotypical insult, and trying to get other members of a different website to flame us. That's what Samdaman did. I thought he was above all that, and he sure wanted us to believe he was above all that. Yes, he had a right to be angry at the way he was treated on this website, but I strongly believed that his way of dealing with the nasty responses on this website was by soundly and politely retorting to those who insulted him. I respected him for that; his willingness to tolerate pretty horrendous insults. So as you can imagine, I was rather disappointed when I found that Tech N9ne thread, because it ultimately proved him to be two-faced. He would always go out of his way to seem kind and pleasant in places where he knew we would read his posts, but when he was out of our sights (at least until I found that thread), he just resorted to the stereotypical jock's way of dealing with tricky opponents - trying to get other people to flame us as we were unaware of all that. I still believe that, in real life, Andy is a good person and far more pleasant than characters like Samdaman, but I strongly doubt his goodwill to all the members of this forum was sincere after all. I thought he was above all that "Flame on" stuff, and now I see I'm wrong. Therefore I do feel I have some reason to cast doubts on his good intentions here.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[ChrisOH]

I understand Andy shouldn't be resented just because he's lucky in life. He is actually trying to give back to the world that has given him a lot, by opting to do his charitable work in Africa. I don't doubt his claims on that issue, and I wish him all the best with that.

I'm responding as someone who wasn't on the forum for the original "Andy-gate", but I've read the archived posts from from that time, as well as the recent news of his apparent duplicity.

Personally, I'd be reluctant to take him at his word about the African charity. I remember reading once in a book by an ex-evangelist how Pat Robertson and the "700 Club" would use backdrops of scenery from exotic countries to make it seem like they were broadcasting on-site, when in fact they were in their regular studio. So, it's possible to be a little less than truthful about such things. I know that Andy posted a link to a website for this bicycles-for-Africa charity, but that's simple enough to do without actually being involved.

But I strongly agree with Fat Man's views about him being a backstabber, because let's be honest here, he wanted to come across as an absolutely flawless, fully admirable character in his posts on this website. He wanted us to believe that he wasn't the sort who WOULDN'T resort to calling us "fags", the stereotypical insult, and trying to get other members of a different website to flame us.

I also did a little digging after re-reading the OP about Andy's flame encouragement on the other website. I did a search for the Montana State football roster, and in fact, an Andy Austin does play for the team. Upon doing a Yahoo! search, I found a MySpace page from Andy which contains the same photo he used as an avatar on our site. This, along with certain information gleaned from the pro-sports site where we made the flame-encouraging comments, leads me to believe that he actually is the football player he claimed he was. (As we talked about during the OMGDudewhat controversy, it would seem silly to post your real photo and name on a site where you expected people to be pissed at you, but who said trolls have to be intelligent? )

When I compared dates on the postings both on our site (his first post) and the pro-sports site, they were from the same day, 1/4/2010. In other words, his encouragement for a flame war didn't result from "abuse" he received at our site (he left our site approximately five days later) -- he intended on trolling the list from the very beginning. I also looked through his MySpace page, and though I could be missing something, I didn't see any mention of his African charity on that page, although he had football photos, prom photos, and other personal items. It justs seems a little odd that for a charity so near and dear to him, he wouldn't proudly promote it on his own page. So, personally, I think he simply made up the story about the charity. (I could be wrong, and if I am, I'll admit it -- however, that wouldn't exonerate Andy completely. I've personally known of people involved in charity work overseas who were total assholes to the people around them back home.)

Finally, I may be speaking a bit presumptuously for someone whose post count has yet to reach triple digits, but I've been on other Internet mailing lists and forums for about 15 years now, and I've seen a basic pattern to trolling behavior. The script goes something like this:

- the troll will enter the forum, introduce themselves as someone with an opposing view to the purpose of the list/site, but state that they "aren't like all those other [insert disliked group here] that you've known." They express a desire for "open discussion and honest debate" or some such thing. Some members of the forum sympathize with this, and welcome them.

- the troll, while maintaining civility, will manage to work in digs at the forum regulars and their views, and/or promotion of their own views.

- some members of the forum see what is happening, and call the troll on their true motives, while others remain sympathetic.

- the troll, having been "uncovered", abruptly leaves, usually with a final flame at the group or certain members about their intolerance, disrespect, etc., and sometimes adding a dose of guilt (e.g. "I'm sorry that you all remain so closed-minded. I'll leave you alone now, since I'm obviously not wanted here.")

- the troll disappears, leaving the regular members of the forum still debating among themselves about how the troll was treated and whether s/he was legitimate or not, thus causing the disruption the troll wanted in the first place.

I saw this pattern in the Andy thread upon reading the archives. It hasn't changed much in the 15 years and different forums I've been on, only the names and faces change.

[i_like_1981]

When I compared dates on the postings both on our site (his first post) and the pro-sports site, they were from the same day, 1/4/2010. In other words, his encouragement for a flame war didn't result from "abuse" he received at our site (he left our site approximately five days later) -- he intended on trolling the list from the very beginning. I also looked through his MySpace page, and though I could be missing something, I didn't see any mention of his African charity on that page, although he had football photos, prom photos, and other personal items. It justs seems a little odd that for a charity so near and dear to him, he wouldn't proudly promote it on his own page. So, personally, I think he simply made up the story about the charity.

Hmm... some interesting points there, ChrisOH. But you should be aware that Andy was actually posting on the Guestbook for several days before he actually signed up for a profile on this forum, and he often was given harsh and unnecessary insults in response to his posts. I can see why all that would have angered him, but for someone who proclaimed to be a nice, tolerant person who wouldn't harm a fly, I was rather surprised and disappointed by his attempt at getting others to flame our board on that Tech N9ne forum.

What interests me most, though, is what you have found on his MySpace profile. Naturally this African charity work would be an extremely important part of anybody's life and they would invest a lot of attention in it on any social networking page they have. This is the sort of thing that people would take pride in showing to their friends on MySpace, Facebook or anything like it. The fact that there are no references to that on his MySpace page, yet the usual collection of football and prom photos that you'd find on any jock's social profile, has similarly led me to cast doubts on the validity of all that. Might I say, that was a good bit of work you did there, ChrisOH. All I'll say against that evidence is - did you check how long ago it was since he last made edits to that page? If it was over a year ago when he last changed anything on the MySpace page, then he may not have known about the intended trip to Africa back then. His last edit to that page may have been a while before he started getting involved with the African charity work. I think this may be the case because MySpace, to my understanding, has joined a lot of other websites on the trash heap of yesterday's internet trends and now they've all gone over to Facebook. But if he's been doing stuff with that page over the last few months and there's no references to the African charity work at all on there, my suspicions of its truthfulness will remain.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Agent 47]

Great points, 1981, and ChrisOH.

The way I see it though, at the end of the day, Andy has simply been exposed as just another smooth-talking con-man now, and so anything he says should really be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

His words are worthless.

And I agree with having very strong doubts about his sincerity about the bicycles for Africans, too.

I mean, you, or me, or anyone, could Google some charity, and con suckers into thinking we were part of it -

"Oh look everybody, look how great I am, I am involved in this charity, and so therefore love me, and believe everything that I have to say" -

http://www.careaustralia.org.au/Page.aspx?pid=285

"See how much I care?!!"

"Oh, I am so concerned about that issue" -

(Suckers!!!)

"And so on the basis of that one link, believe everything that I have to say!" -

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!

Nope. He's just another sports bore that has provided us yet another example of what LOW moral values sports people really have.

Oh, the delicious irony!

Ha ha!

[ChrisOH]

Hmm... some interesting points there, ChrisOH. But you should be aware that Andy was actually posting on the Guestbook for several days before he actually signed up for a profile on this forum, and he often was given harsh and unnecessary insults in response to his posts. I can see why all that would have angered him, but for someone who proclaimed to be a nice, tolerant person who wouldn't harm a fly, I was rather surprised and disappointed by his attempt at getting others to flame our board on that Tech N9ne forum.

Hello 1981!

I did go back and scan to Guestbook for posts during that time period, and I did indeed find some not-so-friendly responses to Andy. However, as you point out, he painted himself as someone with high moral standards who would be above such a tit-for-tat response as inciting others to start a flame war. That's the duplicity I saw in him.

What interests me most, though, is what you have found on his MySpace profile. Naturally this African charity work would be an extremely important part of anybody's life and they would invest a lot of attention in it on any social networking page they have. This is the sort of thing that people would take pride in showing to their friends on MySpace, Facebook or anything like it. The fact that there are no references to that on his MySpace page, yet the usual collection of football and prom photos that you'd find on any jock's social profile, has similarly led me to cast doubts on the validity of all that. Might I say, that was a good bit of work you did there, ChrisOH. All I'll say against that evidence is - did you check how long ago it was since he last made edits to that page? If it was over a year ago when he last changed anything on the MySpace page, then he may not have known about the intended trip to Africa back then. His last edit to that page may have been a while before he started getting involved with the African charity work. I think this may be the case because MySpace, to my understanding, has joined a lot of other websites on the trash heap of yesterday's internet trends and now they've all gone over to Facebook. But if he's been doing stuff with that page over the last few months and there's no references to the African charity work at all on there, my suspicions of its truthfulness will remain.

The MySpace page did say something to the effect that he "wasn't doing much with it," and to check him out on Facebook. However, I couldn't find a page for him when I searched FB, so I can't speculate any further than that.

He did show the usual signs of trolling behavior, and I can see from the archival posts that he created quite an uproar among regulars at this site. (Heck, he's still being talked about a year later, so for someone who made a grand total of 10 posts to the forums, he sure stirred up enough trouble -- which is, IMO, exactly what his intentions were.) What's most disconcerting to me is the division among site member here that he caused. I've seen other sites torn apart by such things (usually instigated by trolls) and it can damage much of the camaraderie and support that the site was intended to provide. I'd hate to see that happen here, as a result of Andy or anyone else.

[i_like_1981]

Yes, your comment about the inactivity on MySpace and to check out Facebook for any further updates doesn't surprise me. These social networkers are like sheep - they'll be mad on one particular website, then when they all hear about the hottest new social networking site, they'll all go to that one and completely abandon the old one. Turning it into an online ghost town, as I say. So yeah, I won't necessarily believe all his claims of doing charity work in Africa are false if all we've got to go by is a MySpace profile which hasn't been used in ages, but I don't believe his kindness shown to the members of this forum was genuine. Perhaps you could call it a "wolf in sheep's clothing" - he came onto the forums trying to act all nice and friendly and making it seem like he would never do anything immature or disruptive as getting people to flame us, when in actuality he had already tried that. As Agent 47 says, we're going to have to learn to take his words with a pinch of salt. And a sizable one at that.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Earl]

The quest for information about Andy Austin continues ...

I've copied and pasted the following statement that was posted by Andy in his Facebook profile under the section entitled "Basic Information." There's also a picture of Andy with a group of African children in the upper left corner of his profile webpage. The only way you can access a Facebook member's profile is by joining Facebook, which is what I did. (Well, actually, I renewed my membership, which I had cancelled at the time of the 4chan troll raid.)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?react= ... [quote]Eyo Amigos! The name is Andy Austin, I'm currently a Sophomore at Montana State University Bozeman where I am working on a nursing degree and playing football! I'm a down to earth person, I don't drink but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good time. I am currently working with my father with an organization called Bicycles for Humanity. We work to give Africans a method of transportation. If you would like to learn more just contact me![/quote]

I realize that anyone who posts in a website's forum is in a good position to lie through his teeth. For that reason I have provided evidence, not hearsay or conjecture. The hometown of Andy and his father Dan is Billings, Montana. I've copied and pasted an article from a billingsgazette.com webpage as proof of Andy's participation in the Bicycles for Humanity charity.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/a ... html[quote]LOCAL DRIVE TO BENEFIT BICYCLES FOR HUMANITY EFFORT
Celebrate Community: Two wheels for 3rd world

By DONNA HEALY Of The Gazette Staff The Billings Gazette | Posted: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:55 pm |

This spring, old bicycles taking up space in garages across Billings can help improve the lives of impoverished Africans.

In Africa, a bicycle can enhance access to health care, education and jobs, said Dan Austin, a Billings bike enthusiast.

â??The difference between walking 14 miles a day to biking it is huge,â? said Austin, who started a Billings chapter of Bicycles for Humanity, or B4H, in February.

A nonprofit organization founded in British Columbia, B4H raises funds and collects unwanted bicycles to send to developing African countries.

The organization, which has 22 local chapters spread across three continents, has sent 10,000 bicycles overseas since it was founded in 2005. The Billings B4H chapter is the first in Montana.

Public drive kicks off

This month, the Billings chapter kicks off a public drive to collect 500 used bikes along with repair tools and spare parts â?? enough cast-off bikes to fill a shipping container to send to Namibia in April.

Austin is the co-founder of Austin-Lehman Adventures, a global adventure travel business headquartered in Billings. He kick-started the used bike drive by donating 120 Gary Fisher bicycles from the companyâ??s fleet of tour bikes.

Austin, a daily bicycle commuter, is active in the Billings Chamber of Commerceâ??s bike trails committee. When Austin-Lehman Adventures bought a new fleet of bikes for the 2010 tour season, he contacted Bicycles for Humanity about making a donation.

He was impressed with the way the organization trains Africans to repair and maintain the bicycles.

Once the bikes arrive in a community, windows and doors are cut into the shipping container to turn it into a makeshift repair shop to refurbish the bicycles and provide on-going maintenance service.

Refurbished bicycles are given free of charge to health-care outreach volunteers and school children and others. Other bikes are sold for a low price, with income from the sale and servicing of those bicycles reinvested in other community projects.

Health-care workers can visit five times as many homes by bicycle as they can on foot, said Austin, who met with the organizationâ??s founder, Pat Montani, of Whistler, British Columbia, in mid-February.

â??I stumbled on to B4H and was so impressed with their success,â? Austin said. â??Itâ??s pretty exciting how a bike can make such a dramatic difference.â?

So far, almost all of the bicycles have gone to Namibia, an arid country in sub-Saharan Africa.

Namibia gained independence from South Africa in 1990, making it one of Africaâ??s youngest countries.

More than half the population of 2.1 million lives on $2 a day or less. About 15 percent of all the nationâ??s adults suffer from HIV/AIDS.

The Billings bicycles will go to Ngoma, in Namibiaâ??s far northeastern corner.

The 20 health-care outreach workers in Ngoma will be among the first to get bicycles.

Austin and his son, Andy, a freshman at Montana State University who is interested in doing relief work overseas, will pay their own way to escort the first shipment of bikes to Namibia this spring.

Fledgling chapter

The fledgling B4H chapter has already garnered sponsorship support from Montana Cycling, a bike shop planning to open at the end of April in the Shiloh Crossing development at King Avenue West and Shiloh Road.

Montana Cycling will offer a $25 store gift certificate to anyone who donates a bike to B4H during the March donation drive.

â??Combining our love of biking and working with the Billings community, while making a global difference, was just too good to pass up,â? said Mark Soueidi, the storeâ??s owner and manager.

To promote awareness of B4H and bicycling in Billings, several organizations and bike clubs will ride together in the St. Patrickâ??s Day Parade.

Austin expects at least 100 bicyclists to turn out for the parade, which will kick off the public donation drive. From 2 to 5 p.m., starting on March 13 and continuing through the remaining Saturdays in March, people can donate their used bikes at the soon-to-open Montana Cycling store.

Although mountain bikes and similar-style bikes are best suited to Africaâ??s terrain, any bicycles, including childrenâ??s bikes, bike parts and equipment will be accepted.

â??The collecting of bikes is pretty much the easy part,â? Austin said.

â??They have to go to the right village. The people have to be trained to maintain the bikes. You donâ??t want them to show up in Africa and be sold on the black market.â?

One reason Austin became involved with B4H is that the organization partners with African communities to sustain the project.

Along with encouraging Billings groups, including schools, churches and bike clubs, to become involved, Austin intends to challenge other Montana communities to create their own B4H chapters.

Contact Donna Healy at dhealy@billingsgazette.com or 657-1292.


Copyright 2011 The Billings Gazette. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.[/quote]

My point in copying and pasting these two items is simply to provide facts. Make of them what you will.

He did show the usual signs of trolling behavior, and I can see from the archival posts that he created quite an uproar among regulars at this site. (Heck, he's still being talked about a year later, so for someone who made a grand total of 10 posts to the forums, he sure stirred up enough trouble -- which is, IMO, exactly what his intentions were.)

Hi, ChrisOH. What caused the uproar was not Andy, but our own disagreements among ourselves.

What's most disconcerting to me is the division among site member here that he caused. I've seen other sites torn apart by such things (usually instigated by trolls) and it can damage much of the camaraderie and support that the site was intended to provide. I'd hate to see that happen here, as a result of Andy or anyone else.

I'm confident that that will never happen here. I strongly support this website. That's why I, as a moderator, am determined to preserve this forum's integrity and further its reputation.

Edit: More information, folks! Andy's hometown is in the state of Montana, as is the university he attends. Therefore, there is a seven-hour difference between his time (which is MST, or Mountain Standard Time) and the UTC times that are displayed in this forum for dating posts. The UTC for Andy's OP of his topic entitled "Here for a civilized debate" is 1:43 a.m., dated 1-5-10. According to reckoning by U.S. time zone, this does mean that Andy posted in our forum and on the Tech N9ne webpage on the same day. This also means that Andy's OP was submitted at 6:43 p.m. (MST). The time for Andy's Tech N9ne post is given simply as 8:14 p.m. The time zone is not given. I assume Tech N9ne is based in the United States. If someone could find out which time zone is used by Tech N9ne, then we would be able to figure out just how much time elapsed between the submitting of Andy's Tech N9ne post and the submitting of his OP in our own forum. Right now we can't even tell which came first. Ain't detective work fun?

[ChrisOH]

The quest for information about Andy Austin continues ...

I've copied and pasted the following statement that was posted by Andy in his Facebook profile under the section entitled "Basic Information." There's also a picture of Andy with a group of African children in the upper left corner of his profile webpage. The only way you can access a Facebook member's profile is by joining Facebook, which is what I did. (Well, actually, I renewed my membership, which I had cancelled at the time of the 4chan troll raid.)

Earl,

Thanks for the research! I'm not sure why, but I'm a member of FB, and I couldn't find a page for Andy Austin when I looked the other day. (Just checked again, and still the only "Andy Austin" I could find was from my hometown of Cleveland, of all things!

The charity does seem legitimate, given the independent sources you've presented. Since I don't know Andy personally, for all I know he may be a decent guy offline, and perhaps his "flame war" comment was an attempt to show off for his sports buddies on the other site. (Doesn't make it right, but when I think about my college days, I did a lot of conflicting things and had often contradictory ideals myself.)

In any event, I agree with Agent 47 that given his duplicity, his "niceness" on here should be taken with a grain of salt. (Not that I think it likely he'll be back again, so it may be a moot point.)

As far as divisiveness or dissent on this site, I've found it somewhat difficult to hold a group together when its common ground is not being something. (For example, I've been a member of an ex-Christian forum for about 15 years, on and off, and we identify ourselves by not being Christian/religious, and for the last several years, I've been on a childfree-by-choice list, which again, has the common bond of not being parents. And in our case, of course it's not being sports fans. In all these cases, members can have vastly different viewpoints on virtually everything else under the sun. Despite these difficulties, it seems like Skul, Earl, Ray and any others founders/admins I'm leaving out have done a good job of keeping this site together, so thank you! It's much appreciated.

[i_like_1981]

Yes, I did suspect that he'd have a Facebook profile and that would contain the information about his charitable work in Africa, so that's why I didn't instantly start thinking all his claims were false when all we had to go by was a MySpace profile that probably hadn't been used in ages. After all, as I say, social networkers are like sheep. The minute there's a hot new network around, they'll shoot over to that one and abandon the old one instantly, so I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Andy's MySpace profile. While I do, and always did, believe that his charitable work was true, I still doubt he had genuine good intentions on this forum. From what I heard, him and you got on exceptionally well, Earl, and even had some private email discussions. So why would he try and get people to raid the forum that you were the moderator of just because of a few unpleasant individuals on there? I wouldn't try and instigate a flame war on a website if a) I got on well with one of the moderators there and b) I was trying to convince them that I was a good person who was above that sort of behaviour. Doesn't make sense to me, that he would gladly pursue such cordial discussions with you, Earl, whilst trying to call a flame war on the forum that he knew you were in charge of. So, although his honesty about his charitable work has been confirmed, he's still not fully reprieved in my book.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Earl]

I'm not sure why, but I'm a member of FB, and I couldn't find a page for Andy Austin when I looked the other day. (Just checked again, and still the only "Andy Austin" I could find was from my hometown of Cleveland, of all things!

There are about 140 guys named Andy Austin who are Facebook members. If you do a site search on "Andy Austin," the first ten members will be listed. The next ten will also be displayed when you click on "See More Results." You have to click on "See More Results" a number of times before you come to the Andy Austin who is the subject of this particular controversy of ours.

The charity does seem legitimate, given the independent sources you've presented.

I could have provided more links having to do with Billings alone.

Since I don't know Andy personally, for all I know he may be a decent guy offline, and perhaps his "flame war" comment was an attempt to show off for his sports buddies on the other site. (Doesn't make it right, but when I think about my college days, I did a lot of conflicting things and had often contradictory ideals myself.)

I think that's a possibility; or he could have lost his temper, which is perfectly understandable. I once got angry with someone that I had a prolonged bitter wrangling with at another website. I ended up firing an angry PM at him, which I now wish I hadn't done. And I can't even lay claim to the excuse that I'm just a kid.

In any event, I agree with Agent 47 that given his duplicity, his "niceness" on here should be taken with a grain of salt. (Not that I think it likely he'll be back again, so it may be a moot point.)

I respect the opinions of the members of this forum. I could always be wrong.

As far as divisiveness or dissent on this site, I've found it somewhat difficult to hold a group together when its common ground is not being something. (For example, I've been a member of an ex-Christian forum for about 15 years, on and off, and we identify ourselves by not being Christian/religious, and for the last several years, I've been on a childfree-by-choice list, which again, has the common bond of not being parents. And in our case, of course it's not being sports fans. In all these cases, members can have vastly different viewpoints on virtually everything else under the sun. Despite these difficulties, it seems like Skul, Earl, Ray and any others founders/admins I'm leaving out have done a good job of keeping this site together, so thank you! It's much appreciated.

Thank you very much. We owe a lot to Skul.

While I do, and always did, believe that his charitable work was true, I still doubt he had genuine good intentions on this forum. From what I heard, him and you got on exceptionally well, Earl, and even had some private email discussions. So why would he try and get people to raid the forum that you were the moderator of just because of a few unpleasant individuals on there? I wouldn't try and instigate a flame war on a website if a) I got on well with one of the moderators there and b) I was trying to convince them that I was a good person who was above that sort of behaviour. Doesn't make sense to me, that he would gladly pursue such cordial discussions with you, Earl, whilst trying to call a flame war on the forum that he knew you were in charge of. So, although his honesty about his charitable work has been confirmed, he's still not fully reprieved in my book.

Again, I respect your opinion. All I can say is that when I lose my temper, I don't think clearly. Of course, I don't know what he was thinking at the time; but there have been many times in my life when I've looked back and ask myself, "Now, why did I do that?"