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Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The Farm!

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:39 am
by Fat Man
OK, here is another very interesting NEWS article from Salon.

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/ ... index.html
Topic:
Agriculture
Tuesday, Mar 15, 2011 13:17 ET

Could this picture get me arrested?
A Florida bill would make it a felony to take photographs
on or of farms without express written consent

By Barry B. Doyle

Image
Barry B. Doyle
An old farm on Johnson Mesa, northern New Mexico.
Photo taken by the author.


If Republican Florida state Sen. Jim Norman, from Tampa, has his way, the above image would be a felony. Some more ifs: If I lived in Florida and if Senate Bill 1246 becomes law as written, then I've committed a felony by not getting written permission from the farm owner before taking that photograph -- or these:

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Cow part, barb wire abstract

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Cow crop circles, feeding in the winter near Lake Tahoe on the
Nevada side, taken from my brother's plane.


If you look on Sen. Norman's website, you'll see his proposed bill as the innocuously titled "Farms." The submitted bill has a slightly more onerous title:

A bill to be entitled:

An act relating to farms; prohibiting a person from entering onto a farm or photographing or video recording a farm without the ownerâ??s written consent; providing a definition; providing penalties; providing an effective date.

You can see the actual proposed bill here. It's not very long, comprising three small paragraphs, but it's a mess. The gist of it is that photographers no longer have the First Amendment freedoms they've enjoyed for the past sesquicentennial as established by law and precedent. To wit:

Section 1.â??

(1)â??A person who enters onto a farm or other property where legitimate agriculture operations are being conducted without the written consent of the owner, or an authorized representative of the owner, commits a felony of the first degree...

That's not the worst of it. The second section is so poorly written, that even an extension art class of octogenarians from the local community college who are painting pastoral and bucolic rural scenes of rolling hills and picturesque farmlands are subject to arrest and felony convictions.

(2) â??A person who photographs, video records, or otherwise produces images or pictorial records, digital or otherwise, at or of a farm or other property where legitimate agriculture operations are being conducted without the written consent of the owner, or an authorized representative of the owner, commits a felony of the first degree...

The wording is ridiculous. When the bill states "at or of a farm," that includes photographs taken while the photographer is on public property. And, wow, GoogleEarth is in a world of hurt. Maybe it can pixelate all Florida farms as it did for Blair House in Washington, D.C., when Dick Cheney was living there -- not that anyone really wanted to see Darth Cheney in a bright yellow micro Speedo sunbathing on the back patio.

Here's the crux: In spite of what people routinely believe, if you are on public property, say, a roadway or a sidewalk or a path next to a roadway, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for people who are on public or private property or of any building or structure on private or public property. Anything that is presented for view, or is viewable from a public place, can be photographed.

According to Bert Krages, attorney at law in San Francisco, and regarded as the leading authority on photographers' rights in the United States, there are many misconceptions of those rights.

The general rule in the United States is that anyone may take photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place or places where they have permission to take photographs. Absent a specific legal prohibition such as a statute or ordinance, you are legally entitled to take photographs. Examples of places that are traditionally considered public are streets, sidewalks, and public parks.

â?¦The following subjects can almost always be photographed lawfully from public places: accident and fire scenes, children, celebrities, bridges and other infrastructure, residential and commercial buildings, industrial facilities and public utilities transportation facilities (e.g., airports), superfund sites, criminal activities, law enforcement officers

You can download a free PDF document from Bert Krages that outlines your rights as a photographer. Once printed, and with a few judicious snips with a pair of scissors, you can fold the document so that it becomes a small handy pamphlet that's easy to carry and provides a quick reference when needed. The download site is here. http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Ironically, unrestricted photography by private citizens has played an integral role in protecting the freedom, security and well-being of all Americans. Photography in the United States has an established history of contributing to improvements in civil rights, curbing abusive child labor practices, and providing important information to crime investigators. Photography has not contributed to a decline in public safety or economic vitality in the United States. When people think back on the acts of domestic terrorism that have occurred over the last 20 years, none have depended on or even involved photography. Restrictions on photography would not have prevented any of these acts. Furthermore, the increase in people carrying small digital and cellphone cameras has resulted in the prevention of crimes and the apprehension of criminals.

Krages has also written a comprehensive handbook for photographers. I have it and have studied it and I encourage all budding, semi-pro and professional photographers to get a copy.

He does make the point that it is not always the smart or judicious choice to escalate a confrontation. Based on the circumstances, it might be better for your own health and well-being to retreat from certain circumstances. But your rights remain nonetheless. There are other subsequent remedies you can take after someone erroneously says, "Hey, you! You can't take a photo of that."

So, who the hell is Jim Norman and why has he proposed this legislation? It's interesting to note that he is not well liked in his district. He is recently elected, and ran unopposed. There was only one name for the seat he now holds. And yet, voting records report that up to an astounding 60,000 people either did not mark the ballot for him or opted for a write-in candidates who spent no money on campaign advertising. One was a pet store employee and one Kimberly Renspie, a North Carolina college student.

His candidacy was filled with scandal and lawsuits. His primary election opponent filed suit after that preliminary election exposing circumstances that Norman's wife purchased a $500,000 home in Arkansas with money from a local Hillsborough businessman. Because of the lawsuit, his name was removed from the ballot for the general election. He was able to get it reinstated on appeal, but it has not been smooth sailing for the freshman senator.

The speculation is that Norman is toting water for large agribusinesses. The kind of companies that don't want attention, whether it's because of the hiring of illegal aliens or of the inhumane practices for both people and animals on those farms. It's assumed his proposed legislation is targeted at animal rights activists who have a history of photographing and providing videos of questionable conditions for both humans and farm animals.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals' general counsel, Jeff Kerr, suggests that Sen. Norman show people where the food we consume comes from instead of making criminals of those who uncover malfeasance. Sen. Norman is taking aim at farm animal paparazzi. Because of his connections with big agriculture, a special interest law is being proposed. Big Florida agribusiness doesn't want any unwitting employment of undercover activists who have hidden cameras outing what is on the other side of that bucolic barn door. We'll see if the baby is also thrown out with the bathwater.

Heads up, Florida photographers: A first-degree felony in Florida carries a possible 30-year prison sentence.

(Update: There is a small flicker of light at the end of this myopic tunnel. The National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) general counsel Mickey H. Osterreicher spoke with a member of Norman's staff and was assured that the bill would be rewritten to exclude felony criminal charges for photographs taken from public property. That was more than two weeks ago, and to date, no changes have been made.)
OK, let see if I understand this correctly.

I'm on vacation driving across the country, and I love to take photographs of the scenery wherever I go. Then I'm traveling through some hilly country and I stop at the edge of a country road. I'm looking down into a valley, and it's beautiful. I see green pastures, white fences, a pretty red barn and a cute little house. So I think to myself, "Wow! What a pretty scene. I think I'll take a picture." the camera goes "click!" and I take a few more pictures of the beautiful green valley below and the farm, because I think it looks really cool. And then I see some horses. Oh! I love horses! My camera goes "click! click! click!" then I put my camera back into it's case and get back into my car and drive on.

Tourists have been taking photos of country scenes for years, so naturally, you're going to capture the image of a green pasture, maybe a pretty red barn and a cute little farm house, and maybe some cows, sheep, and horses. I love looking a photos of country scenes. I also enjoy photos of city scenes and mountains, and astronomical photos. I just love pictures.

Now, am I to understand that some Republican jack-ass in Florida wants to make it a felony to photograph country scenes with farms in them? Am I to understand that I could get up to 30 years in the slammer just because I photographed a pretty red barn, a cute little farm house, and some cows, sheep, and horses?

Also, this Senate Bill 1246 is rather vague.
A person who photographs, video records, or otherwise produces images or pictorial records, digital or otherwise, at or of a farm or other property where legitimate agriculture operations are being conducted without the written consent of the owner, or an authorized representative of the owner, commits a felony of the first degree...


The "or otherwise" could also include pencil, or pen and ink sketches, or water colors, or oil paintings of a farm, and not just "at a farm" but also "of a farm" if I understand this correctly.

So, another words, I don't necessarily have to be "at a farm" when I do a sketch or a painting of said farm. No, it only has to be "of a farm" any farm, and I can sill get charged with a first degree felony and spend up to 30 years in the slammer.

I mean, like, really!!!

This proposed Senate Bill 1246 is so fucking vague, that almost any part of my above interpretation could very easily be applicable.

Yeah, I can almost see it now . . . I get out my brushes, my oil paints, and canvas, and I do an oil painting of a nice pretty farm. First I paint some nice rolling green hills and some pretty trees, and a nice blue sky with some nice fluffy white clouds, then I add some more trees, then I paint a nice pretty red barn and a cute cozy looking little farm house, and some cows in the pasture, some sheep, and some horses, because I like horses.

I'm so proud of my oil painting of a farm, and then one day, amateur artists are able to display their paintings in a shopping mall. So, I rent some space to display my paintings including the one I have just created of a really cool looking farm. But then, some government officials approach me, and start asking me questions of where that particular farm is located, and I inform them, that it's not any particular farm, but just a painting "of a farm" from my own imagination.

Now I'm in real trouble!!! Like, I'm in deep Kimchi!!!

Maybe I should have rephrased it by saying, it's "just a farm" and not "of a farm" but that won't fly either because a painting of "just a farm" is still a painting "of a farm" so my painting gets confiscated, and I'm cuffed and stuffed into the back of a police gumball machine and hauled off to the ol' slammeroo!

Like, "Hi Judge!" ya know?

Down comes the gavel. BANG! You get 30 years in the federal pen, and no time off for good behavior!

Next case!!!

Well, my dear Senator, Jim Norman, you don't have to worry!

I won't be doing any oil paintings of any farms, any time soon, or any kind of oil paintings at all.

You see, my dear Senator, back in July of 2001, I was violently attacked by my ex-room-mate with a machete, and my left wrist was fractured, so I can't do oil paintings at all anymore, and I can't even play the guitar anymore. Also, I happen to be left handed.

So, I won't be doing oil paintings of farms, and I will only be able to sing about farms, "The Farmer In The Dell" or "Ol' Mac Donald Had A farm. E-I-E-I-O!" but I won't be playing it on a guitar anymore because of my crippled up left hand.

But, is it still OK to sing about farms?

Well, don't worry, those songs suck anyway!

Even when I was in grade school, I thought those songs sucked! I preferred "I've Been Working On The Railroad" instead, but even back then I preferred classical music, and rock.

But once again, my dear Senator, Jim Norman, since I can't do oil paintings anymore, certainly not of farms, or anything else, because of my crippled up left hand, then, I'm afraid the joke is on you!

Like, BUUUAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hey! What the fucking Hell am I laughing about?

My left hand is all crippled up, FOR LIFE! So, my life already sucks, jail or no jail!

But in the meantime . . .

Here are some photos, some really cool looking photos of farms, pretty red barns, and some really neat looking farm houses.

Image

Image

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Image

Image

Image

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Image

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Image

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The type of roof you see on a typical barn is called a "hip roof" and
there are even many houses that have hip roofs.

Image
Also, I think most farmers are kind of cool.

And by the way . . .

When I was going to NMSU, New Mexico State University, where I was taking courses in math, physics, and astronomy back in 1975 to 1978, I personally knew Dr. Clyde Tombaugh, the Astronomer who discovered Pluto back in the 1930s.

He grew up on a farm. His family were farmers. The first telescope he ever built, was a 9 inch Newtonian reflector, and the equatorial mounting for his telescope was made from some discarded old farm equipment.

I have even seen his telescope. He invited me to his home one evening to look through his home built telescope. We looked at the moon, the rings of Saturn, Jupiter, and some star clusters.

Anyway, I just posted photos of some farms.

Am I going to be arrested now, and charged with a felony, and get thrown in the slammer for 30 years? Eh?

And so, my dear Senator, Jim Norman . . .

FUCK YOU! GO EAT HORSE SHIT, AND DIE!!! OK???

But in the meantime, a cute little song!

Just for you! OK?

The farmer in the dell.
The farmer in the dell.
Hi ho the dairy oh!
You can go to Hell!!!

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:33 pm
by ChrisOH
Awesome photos, Fat Man! I've lived in Ohio all my life, and have seen many such scenes -- in 2003, during the state's bicentennial, one barn in each county selected to be painted with the bicentennial state symbol. It was kind of cool to drive and see how many of them I could pick out.

As for the imbecile Senator Norman, he probably also voted for tax breaks for huge corporate farms so they can drive small, family-run farms out of business, and ultimately drive food prices even more sky-high than they already are -- but heaven forbid, someone should take a picture of a farm -- he's all about protecting the rights of the "little guy", right? :evil:

I guess, what can you expect out of the current Republican (Retardican) Party -- come up with stupid shit like this instead of solving real problems. Hell, if Senator Norman reads this, he'll probably demand to see my birth certificate!

I'm starting to think I should begin living off cups of water and stale hot dogs, just to get used to it for when they move us into the sports stadiums, like Fat Man speculated! :evil:

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:18 pm
by i_like_1981
Let me remain brief here - I think it would be completely impossible and futile to enforce a full ban on taking photographs of farms without the permission of the landowner. How on earth would they enforce this law properly? A farmer would have to be pretty strict and dour to have some tourist arrested for photographing his land or the area around it. It would be a complete waste of time to make anything further out of this law, but I doubt it'll become law anyway. The property may belong to the farmer, but the scenery is for all to experience and photograph, if they wish.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:18 am
by ChrisOH
i_like_1981 wrote:Let me remain brief here - I think it would be completely impossible and futile to enforce a full ban on taking photographs of farms without the permission of the landowner. How on earth would they enforce this law properly? A farmer would have to be pretty strict and dour to have some tourist arrested for photographing his land or the area around it. It would be a complete waste of time to make anything further out of this law, but I doubt it'll become law anyway. The property may belong to the farmer, but the scenery is for all to experience and photograph, if they wish.
Exactly! Trying to even enforce such a law would be such a waste of law enforcement time and resources that it's completely absurd for that reason alone. (I thought the Republicans were against tax money being wasted and against frivolous lawsuits tying up the court system? Hmmmm....) You're right, it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of passing into law ( I would certainly hope not, anyway!) but that is how this current crop of Republican lawmakers operate -- waste everyone's time coming up with stupid-as-shit legislation they know will never get passed, instead of tackling real problems (wonder what happened to their election campaign vows of making the economy and job creation their "top priority"? Hmmmmm, again..... :evil: )

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:22 am
by Fat Man
The more I think about this proposed Senate Bill 1246, the more I think that it really doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of passing.

I remember back in February of 2008 they tried to pass Mississippi House Bill 282 which would have made it unlawful for any food establishment to serve any person who is obese based on the state Department of Health's definition of obesity, and also makes the Department of Health responsible for enforcement of this law (Mississippi Legislature, 2008).

The primary author for this Bill was Republican Representative W. T. Mayhall, Jr. of Mississippi District 40; Mayhall is retired from DuPont-Merck pharmaceutical sales. Other authors of Bill 282 were Republican Representative John Read of Mississippi District 112 and Democratic Representative Bobby Shows of Mississippi District 89; a turncoat Democrat, and Read is a former pharmacist and Shows is a former businessman.

Of course, the bill never passed. In fact, it didn't even make it to the floor to be voted on. Instead, the bill was shit-canned.

It seems that here lately, these Retardicans are coming up with more and more idiotic bills to be voted on and wasting time that could be used for something more useful, like health care, or improving the quality of education, or the environment, or the economy.

But NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Our attention has to be diverted away from more important matters with valuable time being wasted on these stupid moronic bills drafted by the Retardicans.

It's no wonder the USA is becoming the laughing stock of the world.

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:09 pm
by ChrisOH
Fat Man wrote:
I remember back in February of 2008 they tried to pass Mississippi House Bill 282 which would have made it unlawful for any food establishment to serve any person who is obese based on the state Department of Health's definition of obesity, and also makes the Department of Health responsible for enforcement of this law (Mississippi Legislature, 2008).
How exactly were they going to enforce this? Make you step on a scale before you order your meal? Just eyeball you and make a judgment call? I could imagine all sorts of discrimination and harassment suits coming out of this. :roll:

This website talks about something I talked to one of my doctors about some years ago:

http://www.am-i-fat.com/Ideal_body_weight.html

According to these guidelines, as a 5'10" male, I should weigh 166 pounds. I currently weigh 219. So am I 53 pounds overweight?

Five years ago, upon moving to Cleveland, I started with a new doctor who, after testing me, was concerned about my cholesterol levels. He suggested I try a concerted diet and exercise regimen to see if I could control the cholesterol on my own. So for the suggested three months, I ate little meat, loaded up on vegetables and fruit, and joined a gym and exercised several times a week there. My weight went down to 192, I believe (still 26 pounds "overweight"!) and my cholesterol was down, but just barely below the "safe" level. Therefore, the doctor prescribed cholesterol-lowering meds for me, as he felt heredity likely played a role in it and nothing I did was going to keep it down permanently. My cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar have all been fine since then, even with gaining some of the weight back. (The doctor did stress to me that going on the meds was not a license to eat with no restraint, but that moderation combined with the meds should help me.)

Some years ago I had asked another doctor I went to why I was consistently above the "recommended" weight. (Honestly, I feel like I would be a stick if I weighed only 166 pounds!) He told me that those guidelines were often developed by the insurance industry in order to justify charging higher premiums, because they would put almost every American into the "overweight" category.

To quote from the website:
Optimal Weight Tables for Men and Women wrote:
In the 1950's Metropolitan Insurance developed a set of weight tables which were supposedly related to risk in the life insurance industry. The tables predicted an ideal age weight relationship for men and women based on research started by Louis Dublin, in 1942. The theory hypothesized that individuals in a certain wight range for their age were either low or high insurance risks. The original tables were based on a statistical risk analysis rather than medical facts. The original research was simplistic and probably incorrectly biased. The results were centered mostly on white males, and were not economically weighted.

Since these early days considerable work has gone into refining these tables. The US military developed their own tables and the statistical evidence has been significantly increased and improved. Today there is overwhelming evidence that the weight bands form a significant risk measurement tool! These tables are not only used in the insurance industry but form a central component of modern health management. The basic tables are included below. They vary slightly but the general trends are relatively constant. Please remember these are general tables and you need to consult your family general practitioner, nurse or registered dietitian to obtain more precise information!
(all emphases mine)

So what this seems to be saying is that, although the guidelines have been modified somewhat (the links on the site show the changes over the years), insurance companies still have a hand in them, and that consulting with one's physician should be a primary determination of how healthy we are.

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:53 pm
by Fat Man
ChrisOH wrote:
Fat Man wrote:
I remember back in February of 2008 they tried to pass Mississippi House Bill 282 which would have made it unlawful for any food establishment to serve any person who is obese based on the state Department of Health's definition of obesity, and also makes the Department of Health responsible for enforcement of this law (Mississippi Legislature, 2008).
How exactly were they going to enforce this? Make you step on a scale before you order your meal? Just eyeball you and make a judgment call? I could imagine all sorts of discrimination and harassment suits coming out of this. :roll:

This website talks about something I talked to one of my doctors about some years ago:

http://www.am-i-fat.com/Ideal_body_weight.html

According to these guidelines, as a 5'10" male, I should weigh 166 pounds. I currently weigh 219. So am I 53 pounds overweight?
Yeah, I just went to that web site myself.

According to the guidelines, at 5'6" I should weigh no less than 117 pounds and no more than 142 pounds. I weigh almost 400 pounds so I guess I'm about 258 pounds overweight.

Like, Oh! Come on!

I was only 13 years old when I weighed over 140 pounds, and when I was 15 years old I weighed about 220 pounds, and I beat the crap out of my stepfather and told him never to lay a hand on my mother ever again.

Oddly enough, despite my obesity, I don't have high cholesterol. According to my most recent lab results, my total cholesterol was only 140 which is actually lower than average, my triglycerides were only 95, and my blood pressure is normal, usually around 110/70.

My younger brother on the other hand, he is a year and three months younger than I am but he looks like he's 20 years older. He is tall and skinny, almost 6 feet, more like 5'11" and 170 pounds, but he has high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and he hates my guts because of it, and says that I'll probably out-live him.

Well, I do take better care of myself. I eat fresh fruit every day, and I get plenty of vegetables, and I eat mostly chicken, not too much beef, and I prefer fish. Yeah, I do like to keep some ice cream in my freezer and put Cool Whip on top of my strawberries.

In my opinion, 219 pounds at 5'10" is not a bad weight. I don't think you should weigh only 166 pounds, nor that I should only weigh 142 pounds.

What the fucking Hell!!! Do they want us to look like stick figures?

I remember when I was just a kid in school in the 1st and 2ed grades. While the other kids that age could only draw stick figures, I drew people that weren't just stick figures. Some of the kids were such fucking morons that even in high school they could only draw stick figures.

They grew up to be the Retardican morons who are now running this country, and wanting to take away our freedom, and wanting us to look more like stick figures.

Anyway . . . . .

If a day ever comes, when I'm not allowed to eat in a restaurant, I will trash the joint and put them out of business. Yeah, I'll probably go jail for it, but I don't give a fuck. When I get done, they won't be able to serve anybody, fat or thin.

They'll be out of business.

Re: Could this picture get me arrested? Freedom Bought The F

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:41 pm
by Lewis
Can't a federal court declare this as unconstitutional? It reminds me of case n Britain where someone was banned for taking photos of a train station. Silly isn't it?