"Sports sucks" - I can see the clever thinking in the name..

[daves336]

Saying sports fan are brain dead, is generalising, naive and just plain wrong. Yes, some of them are loud and obnoxious , but that's not just because of the sport. That's their personality.

Yes, sports lets them shout, but unless they're drunk (in which case it's the boos to blame) they stay within their stadium and grounds to be loud, stay away from them if you find them too loud - you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

Also, what about sports writers? They go to University and write informative articles and analyse the sports in great detail; the average watcher of a sport could NOT do that. Sports writers need to be smart to write about it, they're fans, and they're not brain dead. A lot of people, some of them businessmen, mathematicians ect love sports.

Saying they get payed to much is stupid too: no they don't deserve million ect - but only the top players get paid that much, the players that got hand picked from thousands of other players. Plus, thats how much money is in the industry. Look at bankers and film starts, they get paid WAY too much.

Now, you say that sports dont bring anything good, as you dont need them to keep fit. What about the competitiveness, leadership and how it brings people together? What's wrong with me going out to play tennis in the evening with a few friends? We get out, we get exercise and it's competitive. But, not in a bad way, if were friends, were not gonna get angry now are we? And when Im playing a football/soccer match, even with 'chavs' - I meet new people, they are always respectable and its sociable. The fact that 'hooligans' dont act like thugs when they play football is brilliant - would you rather they were out breaking into cars or smashing windows?

So, in addition to just working out or running (which is actually a sport I'll have you know) sports excite people and get them hyped up. As someone that grew up not liking sports and feeling much how you do, and now that I play and watch them all the time - I can say the feeling of playing sports, scoring a goal ect is unparalleled. Even WATCHING. It' not as if Im watching them have fun - I enjoy watching how a competitive environment is shown over a few months. Its makes me want to get out and play sport - and then I can get exercise.

Now, schools. I hated having to play sport in school. But, looking back, I can say that I cannot believe I was so unsociable. In the few times I did have to play in school - I got on with it, and didn't blame the system. Its the same when you give a presentation, you might hate it, but you feel better afterwards. Plus, in sports I get to play with other people.

Im not saying I don't do anything else. I love making music, making films and going out doing casual things with friends, but as I can provide a point of view from both hating and loving sports - I can say they're not all that bad. Just tolerate them, people enjoy it. You really want to stop something that SO many people love? What about your friends and family? Ive seen people here saying that theyre the only ones that dont like sport in their friendship groups and families. So you want your loves ones to stop doing what they love?

Dont mean to criticise, but calling this site "Anti-sport society" or something along those lines would be a better idea, "Sports sucks" looks hostile. When the editor of a newspaper or the head of a school gets an e-mail from "sportssucks", he's not going to give you the time of day. It looks unreasonable.

Finally, the Olympics might cost a lot and everyone has to talk about them in England, but it's for a couple months and you can easily change the channel and ignore YOUR flag the Union Jack being held up. Im not saying you need to watch it, but you should be PROUD that your country are holding a tournament with athletes from all over the world coming to perform. It's only good for the country.

Im not saying you should watch them, im not saying you dont like them cos you "cant play them" ect. Thats pathetic, I understand people dont like sports. But, I have to say, your arguments are unreasonable and you generalise horribly. As for as the site goes right now (and judging by the activity here ) you wont get anywhere and you're wasting your time.

[i_like_1981]

Saying sports fan are brain dead, is generalising, naive and just plain wrong. Yes, some of them are loud and obnoxious , but that's not just because of the sport. That's their personality.

I strongly believe that to some extent, the obnoxious fans are encouraged in their behaviour by whatever game it is they are watching or taking part in. The point of the game is to defeat the opponent and claim victory yourself, right? Not that there's anything wrong in that, but you get quite a lot of people who use sport as an excuse to unleash their vindictive and aggressive tendencies on others. Sports fans here in England have a notorious reputation for getting out of hand, and I'd hardly say some of the players were great role models. Look at Wayne Rooney - a renowned love cheat and thug. Do you honestly think that British football hasn't helped influence his character to some extent; that the ridiculous amount of prestige that has been bestowed upon him has encouraged him to believe that he can do whatever he wants with the world?

Yes, sports lets them shout, but unless they're drunk (in which case it's the boos to blame) they stay within their stadium and grounds to be loud, stay away from them if you find them too loud - you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

I have the right to complain about something when me and many of the other forum members hear have been harassed and even attacked in the past because we let people know that we weren't very interested in their beloved sports. I have no problem with sports fans enjoying their games but I do have a big problem when these loudmouthed gits have an urge to force it upon me and give me shit when I let them know I'm not interested. Have you even read through the forum? You'd know that non-sports fans do have quite a lot of pressure from others to like sports, and this pressure often turns into abuse. Sorry, but there's a lot to complain about in the world of sports.

The fact that 'hooligans' dont act like thugs when they play football is brilliant - would you rather they were out breaking into cars or smashing windows?

I think you'll find they do that anyway. The fact that they play football every now and again does not change the fact that they are thugs and criminals, and football is not going to stop them from doing any crimes. Football is merely a way for them to pass the time when they're not out getting pissed or causing trouble in the town.

Now, schools. I hated having to play sport in school. But, looking back, I can say that I cannot believe I was so unsociable. In the few times I did have to play in school - I got on with it, and didn't blame the system. Its the same when you give a presentation, you might hate it, but you feel better afterwards. Plus, in sports I get to play with other people.

In sports you got to play with other people. Did you ever think that was because you may have been popular amongst your peers? If you get classified as a "geek" or "nerd", you're in for hell when it comes to PE. I despise mandatory sports-based PE in schools, and not just because I hate sports - the coaches and teachers are often incredibly lax and merely just throw some equipment out on a field and tell the kids to "get on with it". Bullying thrives in such an environment. Schools should be about teaching, not just letting the students do what they want. That's a one-way ticket to a crap education.

Finally, the Olympics might cost a lot and everyone has to talk about them in England, but it's for a couple months and you can easily change the channel and ignore YOUR flag the Union Jack being held up. Im not saying you need to watch it, but you should be PROUD that your country are holding a tournament with athletes from all over the world coming to perform. It's only good for the country.

I don't have to be proud in my country because some men from England are kicking a ball around in some overblown tournament which they'd only fail in anyway (and they did last year). Anyone who admires their country just for its sports players is a tool. I admire people like Winston Churchill and the Queen who act as strong representatives for our country and truly place Britain on the map. To be quite frank, I scorn the sports industry of this country and the greedy, self-centred bastards who play in it.

Im not saying you should watch them, im not saying you dont like them cos you "cant play them" ect. Thats pathetic, I understand people dont like sports. But, I have to say, your arguments are unreasonable and you generalise horribly. As for as the site goes right now (and judging by the activity here ) you wont get anywhere and you're wasting your time.

Think that if you want. Do you actually think we're trying to achieve anything through our discussions on this forums? Do you seriously think that the claims on the main page to "ban sports" are for real? This is merely a forum for people who don't like sports to get together and talk about it, and I am glad to be a member of it.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[daves336]

Any visitor to the site, and people I have spoken to think that the front page is serious. It looks it.

Anyway, on your points.

1- I haven't had any aggression - Im always nice to even the opposing fans, and before and after games I talk with them. We jokes about how bad are teams can be ect..Very aggressive, yes...

2. Well, anyone whose been attacked has just been unfortunate. Yes, the fools who are pathetic enough to do so are just c-words to be honest, but that doesn't mean you should hate sports. If that happened, you hate THAT fan, not the game. Thats just stupid..

3. As far as Im concerned, hooligans do that anyway, but again, there are plenty of hooligans that cant play sport. I think your blaming it on sport too much. what about someone like me and all my friends? we dont break stuff or terrorise people. I know of very few people that do so, its a minority. all the people I know from school are nice the whole time when playing sports...

4. Funnily enough, I was pretty unpopular. Thats why I hated it, i didnt want to play with people who didn't like me. But as soon as I TRIED ( i was terrible for the best part) I was respected more. Someone, a 'chav' type person made fun of me because I did the long jump wrong - I made fun of myself, and after that he was fine. Any time you take yourself too seriously you'll get knocked down. At least put on a brave face - when people know you tried, they lay off. Im thankful I was so casual.

5. I admire the Queen and ALL leaders since David Lloyd George. But, I dont think im a tool for wanting the country to be represented via competitive games. Remember the last Queen speech? I could've sworn she talked about the importance of sport..Youtube it. If the Queen thinks sports are important, she has my respect. There was a video of Harry and William playing football with a poor African community - they were THRILLED the Prince's played with them, even if they weren't amazing at it.

6. I assumed that the letters to editors were genuine, thats what im referring to. Still, the name is hostile. But nevermind that, your site.

"To be quite frank, I scorn the sports industry of this country and the greedy, self-centred bastards who play in it."

how can you say that? What about film stars? they have a similar attitude? What about all those footballers, such as Dirk Kuyt. He takes inspiration from his late father and uses money he gets paid to donate to the charity that helps people with the same disease his father had. Yeah, very self centered. What a selfish bastard.

Im sorry if you've had bad experiences with sportsman and fans, it doesn't give you the right to call me a tool. I have never caused trouble or used sport as an excuse to cause trouble,nor have my friends, or the many thousands fans Ive heard on phones in ect.

I think you have some BIG problems, and Im not trolling before you make that assumption.

[daves336]

I admire people like Winston Churchill and the Queen who act as strong representatives for our country and truly place Britain on the map.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlpqjQFbTs

3 minutes in. Read it and weep..

"400 years later, it is as important as ever to build communities and create harmony. One of the most powerful ways of doing this is through sport and games" - The Queen.

Grow up will you?

[i_like_1981]

Any visitor to the site, and people I have spoken to think that the front page is serious. It looks it.

Well, you have been deceived. Surely you've heard of the term "exaggeration"? If you sincerely believe we're going to start a "revolution" against sports, you unfortunately have been tricked. I don't even think any of the members here have met each other in real life.

1- I haven't had any aggression - Im always nice to even the opposing fans, and before and after games I talk with them. We jokes about how bad are teams can be ect..Very aggressive, yes...

I wasn't referring to you at all when I said that some fans could get aggressive. I don't even know you. To be honest, you seem like the less-aggressive sort. But that does not mean that all sports fans are nice, kind and tolerant people. I would say that quite a few are loudmouthed, aggressive and willing to start fights. A minority, yes, but a sufficient number to ensure that they've got loads of security at your average British football game now...

2. Well, anyone whose been attacked has just been unfortunate. Yes, the fools who are pathetic enough to do so are just c-words to be honest, but that doesn't mean you should hate sports. If that happened, you hate THAT fan, not the game. Thats just stupid..

I wouldn't just hate sports because some people I hate like them. I'm sure there are some complete arseholes out there who listen to old music like I do, but that doesn't mean I won't stop listening to it. The fact is, though, that I just don't enjoy them. I don't enjoy football, rugby, or cricket. And it's because of that why I got singled out for harassment in school - you don't even have to hate sports to get given crap, you just have to say you don't like them, and then you get singled out. Forgive me for not being in love with sports, but I believe I'm perfectly justified in my opinions.

3. As far as Im concerned, hooligans do that anyway, but again, there are plenty of hooligans that cant play sport. I think your blaming it on sport too much. what about someone like me and all my friends? we dont break stuff or terrorise people. I know of very few people that do so, its a minority. all the people I know from school are nice the whole time when playing sports...

I know hooligans are morons. I never went so far as to say that all sports fans were hooligans, though. You implied in your earlier post that football actually prevented some hooligans from committing crimes, which isn't true - all it does is act as an interest for them while they're not causing trouble. Liking sports doesn't make anyone good or bad. It's the way they go about liking them (aggressive or tolerant) that makes them good or bad.

4. Funnily enough, I was pretty unpopular. Thats why I hated it, i didnt want to play with people who didn't like me. But as soon as I TRIED ( i was terrible for the best part) I was respected more. Someone, a 'chav' type person made fun of me because I did the long jump wrong - I made fun of myself, and after that he was fine. Any time you take yourself too seriously you'll get knocked down. At least put on a brave face - when people know you tried, they lay off. Im thankful I was so casual.

Harder to laugh at yourself when you're subjected to physical assaults, is all I will say to that.

5. I admire the Queen and ALL leaders since David Lloyd George. But, I dont think im a tool for wanting the country to be represented via competitive games. Remember the last Queen speech? I could've sworn she talked about the importance of sport..Youtube it. If the Queen thinks sports are important, she has my respect. There was a video of Harry and William playing football with a poor African community - they were THRILLED the Prince's played with them, even if they weren't amazing at it.

Yes, I do remember that speech. I'm not saying that you're a tool for liking sports. If you read my post above correctly, you would realise that I said that you'd be a tool if you ONLY admired Britain for its sports players. You're reading into my posts what you want, not what is actually there.

6. I assumed that the letters to editors were genuine, thats what im referring to. Still, the name is hostile. But nevermind that, your site.

The letters are genuine. Maybe some of those are exaggerated, but you can't judge us all by what someone has written on a letter. The site name may be hostile, but in an anti-sports environment, what do you expect? Do you expect it to be called "sportsarentthatbadbuttheydohavesomenegativeaspects.com"? The site name is not out of full belief that sports and everything to do with them suck. It's short, snappy and to the point so people can remember it. It sticks in the mind and creates a response, as it has evidently done with you.

how can you say that? What about film stars? they have a similar attitude? What about all those footballers, such as Dirk Kuyt. He takes inspiration from his late father and uses money he gets paid to donate to the charity that helps people with the same disease his father had. Yeah, very self centered. What a selfish bastard.

I agree that film stars are just as bad. Most celebrity institutions are morally corrupt and promote vanity and selfishness. Sports are not the only one. You have indicated one instance of benevolence on the part of a sports player, which is good. I know they aren't all bad people, but I'm angered and outraged that the top players are earning so much in a time of recession when their services aren't really doing much of a favour to the country at all apart from entertainment, and that they can cover up their wrongdoings through injunctions when most normal people would just have to take the punishment and the shame that comes with it. Sports players are treated like gods in this country and I just can't stand it. I strongly doubt you'll see such generosity from some of them. Wayne Rooney paying for prostitutes, for example.

Im sorry if you've had bad experiences with sportsman and fans, it doesn't give you the right to call me a tool. I have never caused trouble or used sport as an excuse to cause trouble,nor have my friends, or the many thousands fans Ive heard on phones in ect.

I never said you were a tool; I just said that the obnoxious fans were. Stop thinking I'm having a go at you; I'm just trying to tell you why I don't like sports and that there are a considerable number of fans out there who aren't exactly "nice people". You claim to have heard thousands of fans on phones - sorry, this isn't adequate justification for presuming a person is "nice". I'm sure that, over your average phone conversation, they won't be going on about how badly they behave and the delight they gain in doing so...

I think you have some BIG problems, and Im not trolling before you make that assumption.

Think that if you wish. I could say that you have BIG problems with knowing that there are people out there who don't like sports and wish to make their disdain known. You can't change a person over the internet. Even if you're fully serious in what you say, you still can't.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Earl]

Greetings, daves336. Thanks for being civil. You should check out the reactions of the majority of the sports fans who bother to leave messages at this website. They're not civil at all. In fact, they're quite hateful. Take a look at some of their comments, and then tell me they're not being hysterical.

I've copied and pasted the most recent example, which was submitted in the Guestbook, as follows ...

You guys are the fucking worst. 50 year old kissless virgins' opinions kind of hold not a lot of weight. Looking at this site just shows the kind of people that hate sports and kind of defeats its own purpose. Lol.
the guy whos fucking your dream woman

- Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 03:35:49 (MET)

Sounds like the sort of guy you'd want to date your sister, eh?

I've also copied and pasted a letter from the "Letters 2009" column, which motivated me to start posting for the first time on the Internet.

19 Jan 09

Subject: fags!

i'm a memebr of my varsity football team and i really hate people like you. how are you supposed to get girls if your not out playing the sports? without sports there'd just be a bunch of gay nerds running around and touching eachother. how are you supposedd to be popular if you don't play sports? what the hell is wrong with you guys? don't you care about having friends in high school? the whole point of going to school is to make friends and be popular. socialize! ever hear of it? you guys are just angry because you have no friends and want to get back at the jocks like me. fags!

-Harold

Oh, my, what a persuasive argument. A perfect example of civility, wouldn't you say, daves336?

And while you're at it, for pure invective at its finest, take a look at posts submitted by Samdaman, who was banned in 2007 before I came on board. Some people are walking parodies.

So, let me see ... We're the bad guys because the home page has an "in your face" tone (which I personally would not have chosen if I had created this website); but there isn't a single sports fan around who has a bad attitude, is there?

I don't agree with every single statement on the home page, and I certainly don't agree with every single comment that has ever been made by current and formerly active members of this forum. Although I never had the slightest interest in sports as I was growing up (I guess that makes me a fag, eh?), I've never denigrated athletic achievement in my life; and I view athletes and coaches as individuals. I never would have registered to become a member of a website's forum whose home page read "Welcome, Jock Haters!" instead of "Welcome, Sports Haters!" What I take issue with is negative cultural aspects that are associated with (but, of course, are not inherently a part of) certain sports. Each sport has its own culture. They're not all the same. With regard to sports fans and those who don't like sports (for whatever reason), there is intolerance on both sides. Are you willing to admit that? The difference is that one side has almost all the power; namely, your side.

... you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

What do you mean by saying we have no right to complain? Whatever happened to free speech? Isn't that what the Internet is all about? Hopefully you're not showing an authoritarian spirit. Is the sports culture (as distinguished from the sports themselves) a sacred cow that is totally above any critical evaluation whatsover? Every other institution in society should be subjected to criticism but not sports?

Speaking of coercion, what about nonathletic boys being FORCED to take mandatory sports-based P.E.? You don't have a problem with that? I have a unique perspective on this issue. When I was in the fourth grade, the unsupervised recess period I had enjoyed was replaced by a form of compulsory P.E. without the gym, which came later in junior high. I do not exaggerate when I say that I got no exercise in those classes. I never so much as heard the words "exercise program" or even "bodybuilding." The classes were centered only around sports; there was no concern about physical fitness. There often wasn't even any instruction about the sports themselves. The assumption seems to have been made that all boys were aspiring athletes. All of my P.E. teachers and coaches viewed nonathletic boys with either complete indifference or outright contempt. There were no exceptions. Over the years I've spoken to other nonathletic guys about their own P.E. experiences, and their experience has always turned out to be the same. In other words, sports-based P.E. was totally useless for nonathletic boys. All we ever learned was to fear coaches and athlete classmates.

I notice that you discount the problem of bullying and, in fact, seem ready to "blame the victim." Historically in the United States there seems to have been more bullying in mandatory sports-based P.E. than in all the academic classes combined. I hope i_like_1981 won't mind my repeating what I'm about to say, as I've done before. One day in his P.E. class, he was forced to participate in a game of cricket, a game in which he was not even interested. (Again, did his P.E. classes ever have any exercise programs for nonathletic boys so they could increase their physical strength or get into shape? Of course, not.) His class was divided into two teams. When the game was over and his team had lost, one of his athletic teammates walked over to him and deliberately smashed his face with a cricket bat and broke his nose. (Is this an example of what you would call "sportsmanship"? Oh, wait. If i_like_1981 hadn't taken himself so seriously, I guess his nose wouldn't have been broken when it came into contact with the cricket bat.) The thug wasn't sent to juvenile detention, but was only suspended for a few days. When he returned to school, he showed his remorse by shoving i_like_1981 into a locker. Is this an example of sports building character? If someone walked up to you and smashed your face with a cricket bat hard enough to break your nose, you would see him in court. But since this happened in a P.E. class and involved an athletic kid victimizing a nonathletic classmate, it was dismissed with a typical "boys will be boys -- bullying is just a part of life" attitude.

I suggest you do some Google searches and read the testimony of guys who were bullied in mandatory sports-based P.E., and then you tell me there's nothing wrong with nonathletic boys being FORCED to take sports-based P.E. Just as an example, visit http://www.democraticunderground.com (which has had many anti-bullying threads) and do searches on the site for "jock bullies," "phys ed bullying," and "p.e. bullying." Page after page after page listing links will be accessed. (Yes, some of the links are not relevant, such as those mentioning "shock jocks.") And, yes, there's no way to check the veracity of messages posted in forums online; but they can't all be lying. Whether you are willing to admit it or not, there has been a problem with P.E. bullying for generations.

For your reading pleasure, I've copied and pasted the text of a webpage below describiing such an instance of this kind of bullying (from http://www.bullyonline.org/cases/case97.htm).

Bullying in school sports
Case history #97

When I entered the seventh grade I loved football. Unfortunately I was small for my age and could not play, so I signed up to be the equipment manager. I enjoyed being with the team and working to keep things running smoothly. Of course, I didnâ??t know what I know now: adults often live vicariously through children and teenagers.

I didnâ??t know it when I started, but the coaches despised me. First it began with a few comments about my size or lack of strength. Then the harassment began with a few of the players and the other managers. The worst occurred one day when I had been sent into the supply closet to sort equipment. I was working alone when suddenly two players and three other managers came in. Normally, they would be out at the practiceâ?¦they had been sent in to me. One grabbed me, the others helped place me into a large equipment bag. The top was held shut while I struggled to get free. It seemed everyone began to kick me so I curled up in the fetal position to wait it out. It seemed like forever and I can remember to this day the kicks and the laughter and the names being yelled at me. Suddenly the bag was loose and I freed myself. To my surprise, practice had ended. The players were filing by laughing and the coach stood over me saying, â??We need to toughen you up.â? He had watched and condoned the event.

From that day on, I was not safe in the locker room at school. I avoided football practice by intentionally getting detention or by making up excuses to miss. I had always been taught to be dependable and to respect my teachers. I felt I had no where to turn. I could not escape because the coach was also my PE teacher.

This coach would continue to harass me. I remember the PE classes where myself and other small kids would be made fun of in front of everyone. â??Donâ??t cryâ? was the only advice I would give myself, waiting to get home to cry, knowing my tears would only be fuel for this coach. This coach liked to single kids out each day with a game. We would play some sort of group game where the winners could return to the locker room one by one, leaving the loser for the end. This last would be called the â??Greenie Weenieâ? and his name would be placed on a chalkboard for everyone to see. I remember how hard I would try to avoid being last. On one particular day, I tried as hard as I could and actually came in second to last. I wasnâ??t the last!!! The coach just looked at me and said, â??You are always the greenie weenieâ? and wrote my name on the board as he laughed.

I think what bothers me the most is that all this still affects me. I am respected in my field. I am well thought of, have a nice family, etc, but these memories attack me all over again. I have more education than this man. I am more accomplished, yet just his memory seems to have power to put me down again and again.

What have I drawn from this? I believe children need to be taught to be honest. Teachers should be respected but children need to know that adults, even trusted ones, can hurt. These teachers should be reported immediately. Parents who raise concerns and children who report such things should not be viewed as troublemakers or disrespectful. Of course the biggest question is how is someone like this left unsupervised or unnoticed. School officials need to learn that the safety of the kids in the school is THEIR responsibility.

Tell me, daves336, do you blame the victim? Did he bring it upon himself? Do you expect this man to be a sports fan today? If you do, you expect too much.

I said I have a unique perspective on this issue. I mean that I know from my own personal experience what works for nonathletic boys and what doesn't work for nonathletic boys. Several years ago I joined a health club and hired a personal trainer to work with me on a bodybuilding program. The difference between my boyhood mandatory sports-based P.E. experience and my ongoing health-club experience has been as great as night and day. How amusing that I've now gained muscular development in my late middle age, as opposed to the time I was still weak and scrawny when I didn't have to take P.E. anymore! I get more exercise in a single workout session with my trainer than I ever did in an entire year of P.E. The truth of the matter is that the nonathletic boys of my generation would have been better off emotionally and even physically if they had not been required to take what is now called the "old P.E.," which was the bane of our existence.

Incidentally, there now is a reform movement in the United States to provide genuine fitness classes for all students, instead of the cruel hypocrisy that constituted the "old P.E." I do favor the retention of the traditional sports-based P.E. as an elective for the athletic students and those who simply want to participate in sports. Since aspiring young athletes don't need to be forced to participate in sports, the sports fans could have had their cherished school teams without subjecting nonathletic boys to institutionalized bullying. Again, the old P.E. was totally useless for nonathletic boys. The professed concern for physical fitness was a rotten, stinking, hypocritical lie.

Another odious aspect of the sports culture has been the negative stereotyping of nonathletic boys, who are said to not be "real boys" and should even be suspected of having homosexual tendencies if they have no interest in sports. Talk about "generalising" ... This stigmatization often begins before the boy has reached the age of 10. When I was a boy in the 1960s, nonathletic boys were called sissies. In the 1970s they were called wimps. Today they are called fags. All this despite undeniable facts. There have been nonathletic men of great courage who never had an interest in sports; and homosexual men have always participated in rough contact sports, just as they've always participated in just about every other realm of human endeavor. I'm not making the homoerotic argument here; I'm just saying there is not any correlelation whatsoever between homosexual inclination and whether or not a boy has any interest in sports. But that is not the message nonathletic boys are receiving, even to this very day. They're still being told the same old pack of lies.

I don't know about your country, daves336; but in the United States nonathletic boys who never participate in sports are spoken of in a condescending, if not derisive, manner as supposedly "missing out" and being deficient somehow. In today's sports-saturated culture, a boy who has no interest in sports is likely to be labeled "gay" and subjected to ridicule, if not bullying. But who cares?

Actually, I could say even more; but this is more than enough for now.

Before you work yourself up into a self-righteous tizzy, please overlook the "in your face" tone set by the home page's hype and listen to what some of us have to say. You might learn something. (Granted, one or more of us might be unreasonable; but the same could be said of more than a few sports fans, I dare say.) I've broadened my own outlook when I've been willing to listen to others who had a different point of view. Incidentally, we don't all think alike. We've even disagreed strongly with each other on occasion.

I have no problem with people enjoying sports either as participants or spectators, but I get sick and tired of people who react hysterically whenever they hear someone daring to criticize the sports culture. I have no problem with schools having team sports, but I do have a problem with individual school athletes being allowed to mistreat others without any accountability simply because of their social status. I get sick and tired of the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil -- athletes can do no wrong" reaction to this injustice.

Again, I appreciate your civility.

[Fat Man]

Good morning Earl, and good morning to our newest member daves336, and everybody else here.

I would have posted sooner, but I like to sleep in on Sundays.

Excellent post Earl, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Yes, our newest member, daves336, does seem to be more polite and more civil than a lot of sports fans who have posted here in the past, but he certainly dose have an authorization attitude, which appears to be a common trait among all people in sports, athletes or fans, polite or impolite, all seem the carry within them, an authoritarian attitude, a common mind set of anyone involved in sports.

I believe that it has something to do with the nature sports itself, that instills authoritarianism in coaches, athletes, and fans, and for this reason, I believe that mandatory sports centered PE, and sports should be taken out of our schools, because it's authoritarianism is at cross-purposes with academics.

My mother had taught me how to read and write before I even started school, and by the time I was only in the third grade, I was already able to read at the adult level, and when I was 13 years old, I scored 150 points on a standard IQ test. So, I loved books. Science was my favorite subject, especially Astronomy.

Anyway . . .

When I was going to school, I had no interest in sports. I was far more interested in science and art. I also like art because I like freedom of expression. Art allows you to express yourself. It frees your mind.

Mostly I like science, especially Astronomy, and science thrives best in a learning environment where there is intellectual and academic freedom, while being free from any form of authoritarianism. (Isn't the right, Galileo!!!)

So, because athletics tend to be authoritarian, in is at cross-purposes with academics!

Prime example: of our new member's authoritarian attitude . . .

... you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

Sorry daves336 but I must beg to differ with you. No wait! I'm not going to beg to differ with you! I'm not going to beg for shit! I will differ with you!!!

When I was going to school, I had sports shoved down my throat.

First of all, I was lousy at sports, because when I was 4 years old, I was in a car accident, and my left knee was injured, as as a result of my crippled up left knee, I was unable to run like the other kids in my school and I walked with a limp.

When I was in the 4th grade up in Minnesota, I was suspended because I failed to climb a stupid rope in the gymnasium. Never mind that I was passing all my other academic subjects.

I did not believe that I should have been suspended, because I was passing all my other classes, so, the school principal gave me two choices in the matter. Either accept my suspension and go home to my mother, or refuse being suspended, get locked up in a closet overnight, and then, the authorities would take me to a juvenile detention home in Red Wing.

... you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

Oh! It gets even better!!!

When I was in the 5th grade, my teacher was really Gung Ho when it came to PE and sports. One day, we were playing basketball. The ball slipped out of my hands, my teacher picked up the ball, and punched me in the stomach as hard as he could with the ball. I was doubled over in pain, and it felt like an eternity before I was able to breath again. This teacher really liked to humiliate me in front f the other students in the gym. It's how he got his jollies!

Then, on another day, our class went to the school library. While all the other students were allowed to check out any book they wanted, I was not. I saw this one Astronomy book that I wanted and my teacher would not allow me to check it out, so we got into an argument over it, and he dragged me out into the hallway. He pushed me back against the wall, bashing me head against the corner of the concrete block wall.

The following year after the incident, that teacher was fired and could not get a teaching job anywhere else after that, but it was too late to do me any good. I was 11 years old at the time, and for years afterward, I would have headaches and dizzy spells which gradually became less intense during my teenage years.

So, you can't say that sports was never forced on me.

You know, I'm really getting sick and tired of having to repeat all this shit over and over again for the benefit of every new member coming in here saying he's a sports fan.

I can't remember how many times I have had to retell this.

... you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

Sorry daves336, but we do have a right to complain! It's a little something called, freedom of speech! You know?!? Like, the First Amendment, the Constitution, and all that stuff?

Didn't they teach you anything in school, besides how to fold paper footballs? Eh?

And we are forced to tolerate sports. When I was in school, I was not allowed to get a decent education. I had sports shoved down my throat, and force to tolerate sports, while at the same time, not being allowed to have anything that I liked, for example: reading Astronomy books, and studying science.

Yeah! It still keeps on getting better.

I guess I have to chew some more of the same old cabbage all over again!

But here goes . . . . .

When I was in high school, my science teacher was also the school's football coach, and he was too fucking busy coaching his team of pre-frontally lobotomized baboon to be teaching in the classroom, so, instead he would set up a movie projector and walk out of the room, leaving us all to sit in the dark watching a bunch of stupid cartoons, when I wanted to learn science.

So, in addition to have sports shoved down my throat, and being FORCED to tolerate it, I was being denied what I liked, and what I needed.

Also, you come in here crying boo hoo because you don't like the title of our web site forum, SPORTS SUCK, and it really gets to you that there are people out there in the world who don't like sports.

Sorry, be we don't all like the same things.

I like to play Chess and some people don't.

But, I don't go around crying boo hoo because some people don't like Chess, and think Chess sucks, and I don't go bullying people around and beating the crap out of anyone just simply because they don't like Chess.

Oh! But sports! Now sports is holy! We dare not say anything against sports! We dear not blaspheme sports! Oh no!!!

Like, how dare we!!!

Why is it, that anybody who does not like Chess, or classical music, or reading books, or art, why is it they never get beaten and bullied around for not liking these things?

But when we say we don't like sports, or merely not interested in sports, then . . . how come, we get the crap beat out if us? Eh?

Why is it, that people who don't care for sports are often subject to harassment, bullying, and beatings?

What is it about sports, that makes it so special that it deserves mandatory respect?

Meanwhile, anything else, like science and art, gets trampled on by a thundering heard of sport cattle!

There is something seriously retarded going on here!

[Earl]

Grow up will you?

Why don't YOU grow up and stop insulting a guy (a complete stranger you've never met before) who was physically assaulted in school more than once by your kind of people (not that you would care)? Frankly, you owe i_like_1981 an apology. I realize that machismo (which undoubtedly is your mindset) regards compassion as a feminine (and therefore undesirable) trait, but you really should try to develop some. You come to this website and make no effort at all to be friendly or even diplomatic. Instead, you immediately launch into an arrogant, combative mode as if all goodness and light is on your side and you know it all; and you start talking down to us as if we're the scum of the earth. Talk about being rude. And your snooty, condescending attitude expressed in your generous offer to straighten us out is almost unbearable.

Way to go, buddy. You've gotten off to a great start. Here to cause trouble? Keep up with the alienation.

You say i_like_1981 has "BIG problems." What about you, buddy? I think you might have a few problems of your own.

Hey, tell me, do you get a kick out of calling nonathletic guys sissies, wimps, and fags?

More tomorrow ...

[Agent 47]

Hi daves336. I used to play sports, and just got bored with them. And I've never really been a fan of commercialised sport - sports fans seem to be hypnotised by the media into some sort of mindless cult of conformity, and that all just seems a bit fake to me. So when I first stumbled upon this website, that line "Not Everyone is a Brain-dead Sports Fan!" had me in stitches. I totally got it. I remember spending several minutes cacking myself laughing when I first saw that. So, thanks for reminding me of that line, and for reminding me of how funny I find the very existence of this website to be!

[Fat Man]

Grow up will you?

Why don't YOU grow up and stop insulting a guy (a complete stranger you've never met before) who was physically assaulted in school more than once by your kind of people (not that you would care)? Frankly, you owe i_like_1981 an apology. I realize that machismo (which undoubtedly is your mindset) regards compassion as a feminine (and therefore undesirable) trait, but you really should try to develop some. You come to this website and make no effort at all to be friendly or even diplomatic. Instead, you immediately launch into an arrogant, combative mode as if all goodness and light is on your side and you know it all; and you start talking down to us as if we're the scum of the earth. Talk about being rude. And your snooty, condescending attitude expressed in your generous offer to straighten us out is almost unbearable.

Way to go, buddy. You've gotten off to a great start. Here to cause trouble? Keep up with the alienation.

You say i_like_1981 has "BIG problems." What about you, buddy? I think you might have a few problems of your own.

Hey, tell me, do you get a kick out of calling nonathletic guys sissies, wimps, and fags?

More tomorrow ...

Yeah, he a typical sports fan alright!

Grow up will you?

We have grown up!

That's why we are not interested in your childish retarded games!

Sports, and a lot of religions demand tribute, like we're not suppose to criticize sports.

How dare we!

Yet all the other endeavors such as art, and music, and games like Chess, they don't demand the same mindless worship that sports seems to require, and they don't go around bullying people into liking the same things.

What is it about sports? Why does sports demand that we all bow and scrape.

Sorry, daves336, but if you're looking for people to get in line to sniff your jock strap and lick your boots, then you've come to the wrong place!

As I have said before, sports appeals to the more authoritarian mind-set, and to the mindless.



And we don't like sports because it's so fucking retarded!



Sorry again daves336, but you FAIL!!!



And we're just not buying into your bullshit!



Sorry JIMBO but . . .



We really don't give a flying fuck!



No, we really don't give a fuck!

[Earl]

Well, it looks like I lost my temper, which is something a moderator shouldn't do. When I got up this morning just minutes ago, I was going to delete my last post before I even ate my breakfast; but I see that another member has already quoted my post and responded to it. I must point out that he did nothing wrong, as I did. If I were to delete my last post now, I'd also have to delete his as well. This would not be fair; so, I'll just have to leave my last post and not delete it.

But I get wearied by more than a few sports fans who seem incapable of distinguishing between a ball game and the culture that is associated with it, but is not inherently a part of it. Most of the members of this forum who support this website do make that distinction, but way too many sports fans (at least those of more popular sports) construe any criticism of the sports culture as an attack on the game and anyone's enjoyment of that game either as a spectator or as a player. Simply saying that we "hate sports" is vague and fails to make that distinction. I have no problem with decent individuals who happen to be spectators or players, but respect and don't demean those who don't happen to share their interest.

I'm also tired of the elevation of sports to the level of a god or a totally benevolent force that supposedly promotes morality. In just the last twelve months, I've read claims online about sports that are patently ridiculous. Saying that ostriches cannot fly is not a criticism of them; it's simply a statement of fact. I've read claims online that sports promote compassion and empathy and that school athletics prevents bullying. This is absolute nonsense. These claims are an extension of the oft repeated claim that sports build character, which is also demonstrably false. Sport is a morally neutral activity and, as such, cannot achieve what only the teaching and adherence to moral standards can accomplish. For example, some people claim the civil rights movement that struggled to overcome Jim Crow in the United States had its beginnings in sports and that sports were the primary cause of the Jim Crow laws being relegated to the dustbin of history. That's utter rubbish. I suppose sports were also instrumental in stopping the Holocaust.

[i_like_1981]

Sports do not prevent bullying whatsoever. It seems as though daves336 did not read through the forum and understand our true thoughts before he began typing his tirade against us. I can remember him saying that sports prevented hooligans from going out and causing trouble. That's nonsense. Sports are nothing but a temporary distraction - they do not prevent crime at all. If they were such a great builder of moral decency, then why am I always hearing these stories in newspapers of sports players cheating on their wives or having assault charges filed against them? I can only say that fans of sports, no matter how intelligent and pleasant they may be, will never be able to fully understand or appreciate the viewpoints we have, nor will they be as prepared to call out the negative sides of the culture as we are. I'm tired of seeing sports being blown out of proportion. That is what brings me here. It's nothing to do with the game or the idea of exercise and competition - it is the exclusion and harassment in schools of those who do not enjoy them, as well as the excessive prestige that is bestowed upon the modern sports players of our world, that makes me wonder when society fell on its collective knees to these games.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Fat Man]

Well, it looks like I lost my temper, which is something a moderator shouldn't do. When I got up this morning just minutes ago, I was going to delete my last post before I even ate my breakfast; but I see that another member has already quoted my post and responded to it. I must point out that he did nothing wrong, as I did. If I were to delete my last post now, I'd also have to delete his as well. This would not be fair; so, I'll just have to leave my last post and not delete it.

You did nothing wrong, and you had every right to lose your temper!!!

When daves336 had said:

... you have no right to complain about something which you are not FORCED to tolerate.

We were forced to tolerate sports! So we do have a right to complain!

But even if I were not forced to tolerate sports, I would still have a right to criticize sports because athletes are over-privileged and over-paid, and our schools are spending too much on sports and not enough on science education.

A skunk stinks, so I'm going to say, a skunk stinks!

Also, I don't care how polite and civil daves336 might be on these forums. It's been my experience that a lot of really civil and polite sounding people are in reality, smooth talking scum!

Oh! Yes indeed! I can very well imagine, that back in World War II, when the Jews were taken to the concentration camps, that as they got off the trains, some of the Nazi officers were probably very polite, saying "This way ladies and gentlemen, please follow me." before they were lead to the crematoriums, where they finally left the camp, by going up the chimney!

Sorry, daves336, but I don't listen to polite sounding lies!

I would rather hear the rude crude honest truth!

And now, for some truth . . . . .

You're a jerk and a total asshole! So, fuck off, eat shit, and die!

OK?

[Safety]

I love this forum so much. Every now and then a sports fan will come along and try to "enlighten" the nerds here as to why sports are good for society, and why the bad experiences that they've gone through personally shouldn't represent all of the sports fans in the world. But what about the people who maybe considered being against sports, but ultimately reached the conclusion I just listed -- that a small margin shouldn't symbolize all sports fans. So, instead of despising sports and posting about it on an internet forum, they continue with their lives with that thought in mind. "All sports fans are different, so I shouldn't judge them as ignorant and mindless." But that's the way that sports fans and /sp/ users feel about you. They think that you're ignorant, mindless, and intolerant, despite what the homepage says. Neither sports fans nor anti-sports fans can reason with each other because they're both too intolerant to accept each others beliefs. There's no point in reasoning with the forum users here or the sports fans. While you may listen to each other, you will never agree with each other.

This is depressing. Why can't we all get along? I'm going to start the love movement.

[Fat Man]

I love this forum so much. Every now and then a sports fan will come along and try to "enlighten" the nerds here as to why sports are good for society, and why the bad experiences that they've gone through personally shouldn't represent all of the sports fans in the world.

Sports good for society???

Sorry JIMBO BUBBAH BOOEY! But sports was not good for me when I was going to school. In fact, the quality of education sucked in my school because of sports!

Sports only provides entertainment for brain dead morons like you!

But what about the people who maybe considered being against sports, but ultimately reached the conclusion I just listed -- that a small margin shouldn't symbolize all sports fans. So, instead of despising sports and posting about it on an internet forum, they continue with their lives with that thought in mind. "All sports fans are different, so I shouldn't judge them as ignorant and mindless."

Meaning that we should just shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves and not post our opinions on an Internet forum! Eh? Is that what you're saying?

You're obviously another sports-tard who doesn't believe in freedom of speech! You've heard about freedom of speech, haven't you? It's in our United States Constitution. Of course, they don't teach that in school anymore. Now, they only teach how to fold paper footballs!!! So, yeah, sports are not just ignorant and mindless, but also, fucking retarded! Just like you!

But that's the way that sports fans and /sp/ users feel about you. They think that you're ignorant, mindless, and intolerant, despite what the homepage says. Neither sports fans nor anti-sports fans can reason with each other because they're both too intolerant to accept each others beliefs. There's no point in reasoning with the forum users here or the sports fans. While you may listen to each other, you will never agree with each other.

Why don't you just go and join up with your zoo-tramp butt-buddies over at 4chan or /sp/ or whatever? How does one reason with drooling morons who think anybody who doesn't like sports are all fags, sissies, or wimps? They're the ones who are ignorant and intolerant! Not us!

This is depressing. Why can't we all get along? I'm going to start the love movement.

CHOKE! COUGH! GAG! BARF! PUKE!

Now, I'm feeling sick!

I gotta go up-chuck!

Thanks a lot!