Voice of a reasonable sports fan

[lmc850]

I am a freshmen in High School, and I consider myslef an avid sports fan. I play football (American), basketball, and lacrosse, and support my local college and profesional sports teams. That being said, I think you are all a bit quick to stereotype sports fans as ignorant, beer-swilling brutes who yell at T.V screens and beat their wives. For example, I have other interests outside of sports. I read for pleasure, and am a member of our schools debate team. Also, you claims of sports hurting the economy seem somewhat shoddy. People will always spend their money on some form of entertainment, be it sporting events, movies, strippers, etc..
Cheers!
Luke

[blackdog4444]

I'm certainly uninspired due to the fact I hate conformism as you have presented. Go be original, you sheep.

[Indurrago]

Blackdog...that was one hell of a welcome! I was gonna argue about the massive amounts of money involved(wasted) with sports stadium but now I just feel like smiling.

[blackdog4444]

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Prepare to be awe inspired by the next upcoming performance as I try to tear this sheep's ego apart.

[lmc850]

Ok, tear my ego apart.

[Ray]

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[lmc850]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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What an educated post.

[Indurrago]

Welcome, Imc850. I apologize for my last post but I think it's about time somebody gave an decent argument against sports. Since you specifically argued somewhat against the idea that sports hurt the economy I'm gonna challenge that. Sports stadium what are they used for? How much money are they worth? Are they used enough times to be even worth building? I cannot even fathom how much money it takes to build a sports stadium--basketball, football, baseball, etc. And then the money it takes to maintain that massive structure year long and for what so it can be used maybe a couple times a month? Even college and lower level school use all their facilities enough that they're not sitting gathering dirt and bills for a couple of weeks. So are sports stadiums really worth all their bucks. Personally I think they're a giant waste of space, money, and most importantly time.

[lmc850]

Welcome, Imc850. I apologize for my last post but I think it's about time somebody gave an decent argument against sports. Since you specifically argued somewhat against the idea that sports hurt the economy I'm gonna challenge that. Sports stadium what are they used for? How much money are they worth? Are they used enough times to be even worth building? I cannot even fathom how much money it takes to build a sports stadium--basketball, football, baseball, etc. And then the money it takes to maintain that massive structure year long and for what so it can be used maybe a couple times a month? Even college and lower level school use all their facilities enough that they're not sitting gathering dirt and bills for a couple of weeks. So are sports stadiums really worth all their bucks. Personally I think they're a giant waste of space, money, and most importantly time.

You forget that no profesional sports stadium is used exclusivly for sports. Concerts, community events, etc. are held at stadiums.

[blackdog4444]

Well guess how often a single sports stadium is used, bozo? Not often. How often do those events come around? Exactly- not often. Hence, there is NO POINT for building those hogs-of-space everywhere. Heck, there's a baseball field in town that's all dilapidated, so you can guess how much money was wasted on that - indeed, a lot. Hopefully you actually thought of the right answers without looking at my pre-determined answers.

Now what exactly are you going to achieve trying to "turn us", a whole party? I hope you're thinking it's a pretty slim chance knowing we already got a pest contaminating the place. But I suppose you'll be easy prey since you haven't picked [any] assistants yet. Even then, it's a whole army against a couple mongrels.

[Indurrago]

Thanks blackdog. To be honest I was expecting more of a reasonable(longer) response but it seems blackdog answered for me by already emphasizing one of my main points I ALREADY mentioned. I don't feel like typing again my main points so just read it again since you missed something. Blackdog, we have the same thing in my city but instead it's this VERY large soccer field. Even if there was a game on the field it wouldn't do much because the field itself large enough that at LEAST six separate soccer games could be held at the SAME time. How often are you gonna have that many games at the same time? Answer: Hardly ever.
So yeah big waste of time and money. It's a soccer field...chances are they aren't gonna use it for anything else than to play soccer.

[lmc850]

Thanks blackdog. To be honest I was expecting more of a reasonable(longer) response but it seems blackdog answered for me by already emphasizing one of my main points I ALREADY mentioned. I don't feel like typing again my main points so just read it again since you missed something. Blackdog, we have the same thing in my city but instead it's this VERY large soccer field. Even if there was a game on the field it wouldn't do much because the field itself large enough that at LEAST six separate soccer games could be held at the SAME time. How often are you gonna have that many games at the same time? Answer: Hardly ever.
So yeah big waste of time and money. It's a soccer field...chances are they aren't gonna use it for anything else than to play soccer.

Alright, here is my more thought-out answer. Profesional stadiums are big because lots of people like to go to the games. The bigger the stadium, the more customers, the more profit. Simple economics. The money going into upkeep of the stadiums is coming out of the pockets of the teams owner. And I really don't see how the stadiums use of space hurts the economy. Our economy has gotten along fine in the past with sports stadiums, I'm sure they're not whats causing the problem now.

[Detroitsportsfan08]

LMC is right

You guys are looking at sports stadiums from too narrow of a perspective.

Do you really think these stadiums would be built if they were that costly? No. Directly, yes, they cost a lot. But stadiums provide a countless amount of jobs. Not to mention the business they help bring in to surrounding restraunts, bars, etc.

In the end, things tend to even out.

Please, please do not underestimate the amount of jobs stadiums bring.

When the stadium is first built with the construction workers, and after it's built with people working inside the stadium.

Not to mention they can help clean up a city. Downtown Cleveland and Downtown Detroit are both great examples. Is Detroit cleaned up? Not exactly, but it's in much better shape now than 15 years ago when Ford Field and Comerica Park weren't standing there.

[Ray]

Despite what sports fans want you to believe, sports stadiums are luxury items that have always been a financial drain on a city's economy.


From a Brookings Institute study on the economic impact of publicly funded sports stadiums (ALL stadiums are publicly funded because they don't make enough money to support themselves) ...

"In our forthcoming Brookings book, Sports, Jobs, and Taxes, we and 15 collaborators examine the local economic development argument from all angles: case studies of the effect of specific facilities, as well as comparisons among cities and even neighborhoods that have and have not sunk hundreds of millions of dollars into sports development. In every case, the conclusions are the same. A new sports facility has an extremely small (perhaps even negative) effect on overall economic activity and employment. No recent facility appears to have earned anything approaching a reasonable return on investment. No recent facility has been self-financing in terms of its impact on net tax revenues. Regardless of whether the unit of analysis is a local neighborhood, a city, or an entire metropolitan area, the economic benefits of sports facilities are de minimus.

Sports facilities attract neither tourists nor new industry. Probably the most successful export facility is Oriole Park, where about a third of the crowd at every game comes from outside the Baltimore area. (Baltimore's baseball exports are enhanced because it is 40 miles from the nation's capital, which has no major league baseball team.) Even so, the net gain to Baltimore's economy in terms of new jobs and incremental tax revenues is only about $3 million a yearâ??not much of a return on a $200 million investment."

See the complete text at the Brookings Institute website:
http://www.brookings.edu/articles/1997/ ... _noll.aspx

Oh snap! The sheep are wrong AGAIN!

[Ray]

The Heartland Institute, a national nonprofit research and education organization, has found it necessary to dedicate a section of their website to educating the public on the excessive and wasteful spending on sports stadiums.

Sports Stadium Madness - Why It Started and How to Stop It

"Nationally, subsidies to professional sports facilities cost taxpayers some $500 million a year. More than $7 billion will be spent on new facilities by the year 2006, with most of it coming from public sources. Communities that are hard-pressed to keep their schools open or police on the beat are nevertheless entering into agreements to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to bid away a professional sports team from another city."

Read the ugly facts here:

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/resu ... mmary.html


The next time you open your newspaper and read yet another story about another library closing or another school being shuttered because there aren't any public funds available, punch a sports fan in the mouth --it's their fault!