Support Fact Based Education Against Corporal Punishment

[Fat Man]

I support a secular government and a secular America, one that does not sponsor any religion nor prohibit the free exercise of any religion thereof.

I believe in the separation of Church and State, and although that phrase in not used in The Constitution, it is what is implied by The First Amendment in The Constitution.

Here is the first YpouTube video.

Stand Up For Fact-Based Education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U6qml-byhQ

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FFreeThinker | August 18, 2010

Secular Coalition for America: Action Alert - Tell Your Representative to Stand Up For Fact-Based Education
â?¢ http://action.secular.org/p/dia/action/ ... n_KEY=4621

Secular Coalition YouTube Channel
â?¢ http://www.youtube.com/user/secularcoalition

By now, you've probably heard about the Texas State Board of Education's moves to impose educational standards into its textbooks intended to indoctrinate Texas public school students with a telling of U.S. history that is based in extremist religious ideology.

You've probably also heard about some of the more jaw-dropping proposed changes to the curriculum, such as booting Thomas Jefferson off of a list of influential thinkers in place of explicitly religious figures, and the totally fabricated assertion that our system of government is based specifically on the laws of Moses. This comes from the same group of theocrats who famously fought to undermine evolution in science classes and delete from science textbooks the scientific consensus on the age of the universe because they conflict with the Bible.

As terrible as this religious imposition is for Texas students, all Americans have reason to fear. Due to the size of the Texas textbook market (and because other highly populated states do not use statewide textbook contracts in the say way), the backward dictates of its theocratic school board effect textbooks used by public school students all across the country.

Someone in Congress is finally standing up to this abuse of power and unconstitutional overreach by the religious extremists on the Texas State Board of Education. Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson (T-DX) recently introduced a resolution (H. Res. 1593) that supports fact-based curricula in public schools without meddling by those with an avowed religious agenda. Students in Texas and all across America need to know that Congress wants them to have an education based on facts and science, not myth and religious bias.

TAKE ACTION NOW: Watch the video message above from Secular Coalition for America Executive Director Sean Faircloth supporting Rep. Johnson's resolution, and then tell your member of Congress to become a co-sponsor.

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I'm also against the use of corporal punishment in our schools both public schools AND religious private schools!

Believe me, I have had plenty of experiences being corporeally punished in our schools with my body having been beaten and battered so many times.

That's why I'm a whacked mental case with so many head problems! OK?

If you all want to see more head cases like mine, then just keep it up America, just keep it up!

You will live to regret it! I promise you!!!

Anyway . . . Here is another YouTube Video.

Sean Faircloth of the Secular Coalition for America on Corporal Punishment in Religious Schools
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv ... ion_941983

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secularcoalition | July 15, 2010

Last month, Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) introduced Ending Corporal Punishment in Schools Act, a bill in Congress that would ban corporal punishment-in other words, striking kids to enforce discipline-in all public and private schools. This bill's introduction is a positive step toward ending religious privilege in policy affecting and harming children.

TAKE ACTION NOW: Ask your member of Congress to co-sponsor this legislation!
http://action.secular.org/p/dia/action/ ... n_KEY=4323

Many private religious schools are funded with taxpayer dollars. The students attending religious schools should be protected to the same extent as their public school counterparts.

The Bible contains seven passages which specifically recommend the use of physical pain to discipline children of course, the Bible also condones stonings and slavery. James Dobson, who leads the religious organization Focus on the Family with a budget over $100 million dollars, asserts, "spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to cry genuinely," and that "pain is a marvelous purifier." Dobson advocates spanking for children as young as eighteen months old.

Make no mistake: Exempting religious private schools from a ban on corporal punishment means the government is authorizing the use of physical violence as a form of punishment for a specific set of children. Children in religious schools are no less human - and no less deserving of safety from physical harm -- than any other children.

TAKE ACTION NOW: Ask your members of Congress to co-sponsor Ending Corporal Punishment in Schools Act. Tell them that as a Secular American you want them to protect all children equally and not give special privileges to religious schools and teachers to employ this practice on their students.
http://action.secular.org/p/dia/action/ ... n_KEY=4323
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Yeah, these right-wing Funny-mentalists Christards, are making millions of dollars beating up on children and taking away our Constitutional rights to intellectual and academic freedom.

Please note:

I'm NOT referring to ALL Christians but only the extreme right-wing Fascist Christards!

They have way too much money and too much political power. Morons should not have so much wealth, because they will misuse it to destroy our lives. Morons should have no money at all and they should be sleeping on park benches and eating out of trash dumpsters.

Now in Texas, any mention of the universe being billions of years old has been stricken from the textbooks, and they have removed Evolution.

While these Fascist right-wing Christards are growing rich making millions of dollars, I'm living in poverty with two broken front teeth that I can't afford to have fixed.

Many long years ago, when I was in school, I wanted to study science, but now, here in Texas, high school students won't be allowed to study science anymore. They will be unable to go on to college, but will instead end up bagging groceries and hauling garbage or scrubbing toilets or shining shoes.

Praise de Lord!!! Amen!

If I were a kid in high school today, I would be so angry that if handed a textbook with Evolution removed and creationist fairy tales inserted, I would throw the book down on the floor and walk out of the class, and if the teacher tells me to come back, I would say "Fuck you, and go to Hell!!!" and slam the door as I leave, just like I once told a PE coach to go the Hell after he assaulted me in the gymnasium.

Yeah! If I were a teenager today, I would be one rebellious fat little fucker!!! I would probably be so angry that I might find myself constantly in trouble and receiving corporal punishment more and more and eventually I would probably get angry enough to kill somebody!

Of course, here in Texas, I would probably end up on death row facing lethal injection, and as they are strapping me down to the gurney I will be singing over and over again . . . .

I . . . I believe in science! I . . . I believe in truth! (With the melody from I believe in music)

And I would sing it over and over again until I finally died and with my last dying breath, my final words would be . . .

FUCK YOU ALL!!!

And I would rather go to Hell and be with Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Einstein and Carl Sagan than to go to heaven to be with people like Jerry Falwell. And if Pat Robertson is going to heaven, then I certainly don't want to be there!

Actually, I don't believe there's an eternal Hell.

The sun will eventually go out in a few billion years from now, so not even the sun is going to last forever.

Therefore there is no eternal Hell, either.

That's just a scare tactic that preachers and evangelists use to sucker people into giving them millions of dollars so they can use their wealth to tear down the institutions of science and take way our freedom.

They're fucking us and making us like it!

Well, I don't like it!

I HATE IT!!!

Here is some more information that ALL Americans should know.

It's a little thing called The Constitution.

Religious Test 08 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpD1uq7CX8E

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secularcoalition | December 29, 2008

The Religious Test in Campaign '08
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"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public
trust under The United States"

The Constitution of The United States - Article VI, Section 3

The Faith Based Initiative which the Bush Administration supported is a violation of The Constitution.

Secular Coalition for America's Sean Faircloth to Obama: End Religious Discrimination
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T63kv5O-vu8

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secularcoalition | June 25, 2010

A message from Secular Coalition for America Executive Director Sean Faircloth on the second anniversary of President Obama's declaration that Faith-Based Initiatives would not permit discrimination or proselytizing--a promise he has yet to keep.
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The truth is, that Faith Based Initiatives has resulted in discrimination against many non-Christian religions, against atheists, and even discrimination against some Fundamentalist Christians if they were perceived to be "the wrong kind" of Fundamentalists, whatever the Hell that means.

I favor a secular government, because a secular state recognizes the rights of ALL religions and ALL non-religious people and atheist, ALL Americans.

It's the extremists among the Fundamentalist Christians who are trying to push our government to sponsor Christianity over all other religions, and to categorize non-Christians and atheists as being unpatriotic and not citizens.

They are pushing to establish a theocracy, and if my country becomes a theocracy, then I will inquire as to how to join some kind of Militia to take up arms against my own country if need be.

I would rather die than live under a theocracy!

[Earl]

My parents spanked me a few times when I was a kid, and I turned out all right. Looking back, I can see that they were right every time!

[The Imperialist]

Corporal Punishment up to a point is good. (Proved by cadets and the only way to shut them up and stop being idiots is to hit them or to give them press-ups)

Religious education (that is forced, with such fundamentalist views) is bad. Unless of course, America introduces State Shinto into education and indocrinates people into the fact that the Emperor is divine, and all humanity's loyalty shall be undivided towards the Emperor, I will support.

[Fat Man]

Corporal Punishment up to a point is good. (Proved by cadets and the only way to shut them up and stop being idiots is to hit them or to give them press-ups)

Religious education (that is forced, with such fundamentalist views) is bad. Unless of course, America introduces State Shinto into education and indocrinates people into the fact that the Emperor is divine, and all humanity's loyalty shall be undivided towards the Emperor, I will support.

I don't worship another human being.

Nobody is God! No man is divine. I don't believe in the divinity of some person in a high position of authority.

We vote for our Presidents, and if the president turns out to be an idiot, we vote him out of office. That's why we hold Presidential elections every 4 years.

This divinity stuff is pure bullshit!

[The Imperialist]

Well, your belief that divinity is bullshit, maybe justified.

However, my point is that, if they want to do religious education, they might as well do the pre-war State Shinto doctrine because it is more useful than going on about certain doctrines that have been twisted so much from the original. The other points is that if somebody is mad enough to pull it off, it will just be advantageous for Japan, and will fulfill part of the greatest revenge in history. (By the way, one can hate a country and its system, but one shall not hate the people)

My loyalty to the Emperor is undivided, and even though I am skeptical about the divinity of His Imperial Majesty (may the Gods listening forgive me for saying this), the fact that he is the result of a lineage UNBROKEN since times recorded in Myth, is enough to convince me that the herculean effort that was made to keep the Imperial Family as the untainted symbol of the State of Japan, and the unity of the people of Japan will be unchallenged, and certainly his rule as the symbol of Japan will surely go on for eternity, where as long as the Imperial Family is alive and continued unbroken, Japan will continue, and as long as Japan continues, the most distinguished Family shall rule in parallel.

And I personally believe that polytheism actually makes more sense than monotheism, but even then, I am agnostic about the presence of a supernatural being that has some sort of over-humanly powers.

And also, I am not worshipping him. I have deemed that my loyalty is diserved for Him, and the fact that I am patriotic, and one of the first conditions is your undying love for the Emperor, and the State he represents, and the values He represents. It is also the focal point of how one is proud to be Japanese (which is lacking in Japanese people which I detest). He is also the representation of the eternal continuation of Japan, and our hopes for future glory (if it was not for Him, if the goddamn GHQ executed him, Japan will have lost all hope, and by now, will probably be not Japanese- they will be completely different, probably trying to be as occidental as possible as they would have lost all hope in having their identity as a Japanese). He tirelessly (as the Head Priest of Shinto) prays for us in all the complicated Shinto rituals, thinking of Japan, and praying for Japan. For that, he deserves our loyalty, and to fulfil his devotion to the country that is also Him, and also to fulfil our devotion to our country, as he is the example of how one should put their mind into thinking of their country.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

In my opinion, the Emperor can go fuck himself (Hirohito more so). I don't like monarchies (especially when the monarch is responsible for atrocities such as those commited by Hirohito), myself living in one (Canada). The reason why I don't like the monarchy I live in is that even though our government is also a democracy (we elect our prime minister) and even though we were rated the 11th most democratic nation by the Democracy Index, our head of state is the Queen of England, and when the Queen isn't there to make a decision, we have our Governor General in charge. Even though their power is mainly just symbolic, I think it's bullshit that our Head of State is someone who the citizens have no say in appointing. Canada became it's own nation quite a while ago, so why can't we have our own Head of State? I wish we would have joined the Americans in their revolution instead of going against them.

[i_like_1981]

Corporal Punishment up to a point is good. (Proved by cadets and the only way to shut them up and stop being idiots is to hit them or to give them press-ups)

Sadly, sometimes there is no other way to keep people in line apart from giving them a good whack. I'd have liked to have seen that happen to some of the dickheads in my high school who couldn't shut the hell up and actually LEARN something. Oh well, justice took a different form with them - they ended up failing all their exams because they chose to mess around instead of work in school and probably are scrounging for money down some alleyway somewhere now. Perhaps stricter punishments for pissing around in classrooms or being a bully or general nuisance in school might keep some of these idiots away from these bad paths in life.

Of course, if corporal punishment were to be legalised once again in British schools there would be those teachers who always took it too far and ended up hurting people for minor indiscretions like giving a wrong answer to a question. Still, it probably won't happen again. Violence always brings out the worst in people and in school, people don't get good grades or appreciate the lessons from being hit for their foul-ups. The teachers have to use their own skills to make people learn, not a cane. Those days are over.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Fat Man]

Corporal Punishment up to a point is good. (Proved by cadets and the only way to shut them up and stop being idiots is to hit them or to give them press-ups)

Sadly, sometimes there is no other way to keep people in line apart from giving them a good whack. I'd have liked to have seen that happen to some of the dickheads in my high school who couldn't shut the hell up and actually LEARN something. Oh well, justice took a different form with them - they ended up failing all their exams because they chose to mess around instead of work in school and probably are scrounging for money down some alleyway somewhere now. Perhaps stricter punishments for pissing around in classrooms or being a bully or general nuisance in school might keep some of these idiots away from these bad paths in life.

Of course, if corporal punishment were to be legalised once again in British schools there would be those teachers who always took it too far and ended up hurting people for minor indiscretions like giving a wrong answer to a question. Still, it probably won't happen again. Violence always brings out the worst in people and in school, people don't get good grades or appreciate the lessons from being hit for their foul-ups. The teachers have to use their own skills to make people learn, not a cane. Those days are over.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

A long time ago, when my mother went to school she was punished just for being left-handed.

She had this one teacher who whacked her on the back of her left hand with the hard edge of a wooden ruler, so she learned to use her right hand from that day on.

Before that happened, she had beautiful hand writing, but after she switched, her hand writing was always difficult to read.

Also, she studied art in high school, and I had seen her drawings and sketches. She did beautiful work, and she wanted to become a commercial artist after she graduated from high school.

But thanks to the one teacher who fucked her up, she dropped out of art class and was never able to pursue her dream of becoming a commercial artists.

When I was going to school, being able to read at the adult level when I was only in the third grade, and being interested in science, my mother had high hopes for me.

But, my life was fucked up because when I went to school sports was more important and academics, and I was punished for being physically handicapped.

Religious conservatives like to talk about "spiritual values" but they are the most materialistic capitalist pigs because they use their religion to make money by ripping off their congregations.

Thank to sports obsessed Ecclesiassholes, my soul was in torment because it is housed in a body that is physically imperfect.

I'm already in Hell!!!

It's right here on the earth.

[Earl]

How in the world do you make any connection between religious conservatives and sports being given a higher priority than academics in high schools? There is none! Where do you get this stuff? I swear, you've got to be one of the most opinionated persons I've ever met. You're just as extreme and stereotypical in your hatred of the Bible and most believers (and that would include me, my wife, and my daughters, by the way) as Samdaman is in his hatred of nerds. It has been my own personal observation for decades that many of the kindest people I've known have been those who have followed a strict religion-based code of ethics, yet you constantly ridicule these people. You have said that all organized religion is a racket. (That, of course, would include my own congregation -- of which you know absolutely nothing about.) So, why do you bother converting to Judaism? It's a religion, isn't it? Why don't you just become an atheist? You wouldn't have to do anything. I have no objection to people defending the theory of evolution (although I reject it) in a forum such as this. They have that right. But you have gone way past that point and have been bashing people's religious faith, and I'm sick and tired of it.

[Fat Man]

How in the world do you make any connection between religious conservatives and sports being given a higher priority than academics in high schools? There is none! Where do you get this stuff? I swear, you've got to be one of the most opinionated persons I've ever met. You're just as extreme and stereotypical in your hatred of the Bible and most believers (and that would include me, my wife, and my daughters, by the way) as Samdaman is in his hatred of nerds. It has been my own personal observation for decades that many of the kindest people I've known have been those who have followed a strict religion-based code of ethics, yet you constantly ridicule these people. You have said that all organized religion is a racket. (That, of course, would include my own congregation -- of which you know absolutely nothing about.) So, why do you bother converting to Judaism? It's a religion, isn't it? Why don't you just become an atheist? You wouldn't have to do anything. I have no objection to people defending the theory of evolution (although I reject it) in a forum such as this. They have that right. But you have gone way past that point and have been bashing people's religious faith, and I'm sick and tired of it.

I speak from personal experience.

The teacher who bashed my head against the wall, he was one of them Christian Fundamentalists as well as a sports obsessed nut-case!

When I was living up in Minnesota, my 7th grade PE coach liked to harass this one fat kid we had in our class, and I remember his exacts words to him. He said "I'll make a Christian Saint outta you yet!" and that poor kid was constantly harassed even worse that I was. This was before I started getting fat myself back when I was 13 years old.

When I was a kid, on Sundays I went to this Baptist Church in Cloquet Minnesota.

Sorry to say, but, my church wasn't anything like the church you presently go to. Far from it!

One day we had a church picnic. At first it was fun, we had hot-dogs and Cool Aid, and then we had to play games.

OK, each one of us kids was given a paper cup with our names written on the bottom. Well during the games I put my paper cup on the table among all the others.

After playing playing baseball out in the hot sun when the game was over, naturally I was hot, tired, and very thirsty.

My cup came up missing, and I was not allowed to get another one, and I was very thirsty, and my Sunday School teacher said, "well, I guess you're just going to have to die of thirst." those were her exact words.

Like, what was I suppose to do? Hold on to my paper cup while playing ball?

When the picnic was over, my mother came to pick me up. She noticed my face was red from the heat, and I was becoming dehydrated. I explained to her what happened, that I was not able to have anything to drink because I had lost my paper cup and was not allowed to have another one.

My mother was righteously pissed!!!

I was sick that evening from the heat and not being allowed to have anything to drink. My mother applied cool wet washcloths on me, and gave me liquids. She went to the store and got me a couple bottles of 7Up which was my favorite drink when I wasn't feeling well.

And believe me, even up in Minnesota, the summers can get pretty damn hot, and the humidity is much higher so that 90 degrees up in Minnesota feels like 100 degrees down here in the deserts with our dryer climate. The humidity makes it feel much hotter and it makes you sweat a lot more.

I felt feverish that night while sleeping, but by morning when I woke up, my fever was gone and I felt better, although I still felt rather weak the next day.

You see, my church forgot a very important scientific medical FACT. People playing out in the hot sun need to replenish their vital bodily fluids by drinking liquids to avoid dehydration and possible DEATH!!!

HELLO!!! HELLO!!! HELLO!!!

Oh! But I forget! My church didn't believe in scientific facts! They taught us fairy tales!!!

Earlier that year, during the month of December, we had a fancy church banquet. The tables were all set up Hawaiian style.

Oh! But me, and some of the other kids, we weren't allowed to sit at the main table. We sat as some small folding tables in a separate room. That was for all those who did not have perfect church attendance for the past year. Also, we weren't allowed to have second helpings of food like those at the main table. We were each given a small plate of food and only one drink that was it!

Well, the reason why I did not have perfect church attendance was because I was in the hospital for 5 days. I was getting surgery done on my left arm.

I was 9 years old at the time. It turns out that I had a small bone growth under my left arm that was pinching a nerve. What happened was that during recess in school, me an another kid, we were goofing off, kidding around, and he hit me on my left shoulder. The small bone spur broke off and pinched a nerve. He didn't intentionally mean to hurt me, we were just goofing off, and I never knew about the bone growth.

I had pain in my left shoulder when I came home, so my mother and I went to see the doctor. They took an X ray and it showed a small bone spur that needed to be surgically removed. It was pinching a nerve and my left hand felt tingly, and I happen to be left handed.

A week later I went in for surgery on my left arm, so, I spent about 5 days in the hospital after my surgery.

Thanks to modern medical science and the skilled surgeon, the pain in my left shoulder was gone, and the tingly sensation up and down my arm and in my hand, that was gone, and my arm felt much better and I could use my left hand again.

PRAISE SCIENCE! GLORY HALLELUJAH!!! AMEN!!!

That's why I did not have perfect church attendance. Because I was in the hospital for 5 days after my surgery on my left arm.

And did anybody from the church ever come to visit me in the hospital to see how I was doing?

NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I'm sorry, but the church I went to was not anything like your church!

And I'm NOT down on ALL Christians.

I'm only referring to people like Pat Robertson, Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort, Becky Fischer with her so-called Jesus Camp and brain washing children.

You were fortunate that in your experience that the kindest people you have known were religious.

But I was not so fortunate.

And you have to admit, I'm right about people like Pat Robertson, and the Psycho Bitch Becky Fischer who runs the Jesus Camp.

Also, I have noticed, that Jews don't go around trying to have creationism inserted into high school science classes or influence politicians to pass legislation to have creationism taught in science classes.

And Jews aren't trying to have Thomas Jefferson removed from history textbooks.

And by the way . . . didn't you watch the video about corporal punishment in religious schools?

There is another whack job named James Dobson who is said to be easily one of the most powerful religious leaders in America. He has an organization named Focus On The Family which has an annual budget of over 100 million dollars.

James Dobson says, "Pain is a marvelous purifier" and he means pain for children. He says spanking should be of sufficient magnitude to cause the child to cry genuinely. He even advocates spanking children as young as 18 months, and he says if children cry for more than 5 minutes then he says the child is merely complaining and he goes on to say "I would require him to stop the protest crying usually by offering him a little more of whatever caused the original tears."

So, if the child doesn't stop crying within 5 minutes he gets spanked some more, which causes more pain and more crying, which brings on more spanking causing more pain which causes more crying! On and on and on it goes!

Now isn't that nice!

Then there is another rather prominent Fundamentalist, the author Michael Pearl who's book has sold over 1.8 million copies. Michael Pearl advocates using a length of quarter inch plumbing supply line as a "real attention getter."

A seven year old girl recently died after being beaten by a length of quarter inch plumbing supply line.

Please Earl, did you even take the time to watch the video on corporal punishment in religious schools?

Please watch it, and then you will know where I'm coming from.

When I was a kid going to school, I wanted to study science, but I was harassed and beaten because I was lousy at sports.

Now I'm living in poverty.

By the way, last night, my second broken tooth came out, so now I have two teeth missing in front.

I'm living in poverty while these scum-bag right-wing Ecclesiassholes who want to remove teaching science in our schools and replace science with fairy tales, and who advocate whipping children with a length quarter inch plumbing supply line, they are growing rich, making millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars! They are even worse than the jocks and the coaches!!!

But I, who wanted to study science, I'm living in abject poverty.

If you had take the time to read ALL of my previous messages and EVERYTHING in them, you would know that I'm NOT down on ALL Christians.

My favorite historical figures, whom I admire very much, like Copernicus, Galileo, Johannes Kepler, and Sir Isaac Newton, they were all Christians. OK?

It's just that they did not interpret everything in the Bible so literally.

Galileo himself once said that the Bible teaches how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go.

And even after he was placed under house arrest by the Holy Office, he was still loyal to The Catholic Church, the very same church the persecuted him in the first place.

So, I'm actually defending some Christians here.

I just resent how these so-called Christians, whom I call Christards, are getting all kinds of publicity, the ones who are getting filthily rich, I resent how they want to rewrite history and replace science in our schools withy their retarded fairy tales and how they believe in beating children within an inch of their lives. And I resent how these religious schools where children are beaten are being supported by our tax dollars.

Please! Can anybody please tell me how it is that I'm living in poverty, even though I scored 150 points on a standard IQ test, and wanted to study science, yet I'm living in poverty while drooling imbeciles get paid millions of dollars just for chasing balls, and right-wing religious fanatics make millions telling fairy tales and beating children!

Could somebody please give me a logical reason why this must be so. I have given up trying to figure it out for myself.

I need a logical explanation before I go insane!!!

Sorry, but I Believe that the creation story in Genesis is a myth.

And I'm against corporal punishment, because of my own personal experiences.

Sean Faircloth of the Secular Coalition for America on Corporal Punishment in Religious Schools
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv ... ion_941983

Please watch the damn video!

OK?

[Earl]

Thank you, Fat Man, for responding to me in a civil way -- instead of calling me a moron, as I was afraid you might do. In order to address all the issues that you have brought up in your post, I will have to post more than a single time; so, I trust that you will be patient. Since I'm busier than usual now, I will have to submit several posts over a period of a few days.

First of all, I appreciate your willingness to believe that the members of my congregation are kind, instead of being prejudiced and assuming that they're all just a bunch of hypocrites. Incidentally, not all of them are kind to me. There is an elderly woman who has carried a grudge against me for over ten years. Why she has done so, I have no idea. I haven't been able to figure out why. I may talk to her about it. But I don't let it get me down. If she hates me, then she has a problem with God, who does not approve of her attitude. Without being judgmental, I will say that any group of religious believers will always have at least a few hypocrites.

I hear you about the religious hypocrisy. Believe me, I do. I experienced religious hypocrisy when I was a boy, too. What I'm about to say is not meant to be taken as a smear against Methodists as a group. I'm just relating what happened to me.

My parents were Methodists. When I was about 10 years old, I became a Methodist myself. But about six or seven years later, I would leave my parents' Methodist church.

When I started junior high, there was a bully who picked on me; and since his last name started with the same letter as mine, he would be in my home room every year through junior high and high school. For the sake of convenience, I'll refer to him as George -- which, of course, is not his real first name.

My parents' Methodist church served an affluent membership. It was, in fact, what I would call a country club church. Like many other so-called churches, this Methodist church believed that their mission was to provide entertainment for their members. In order to accomodate all of these unscriptural activities, the church building grew so much over the years that today it's now the size of a large high school.

George's parents brought him to my Methodist church. I once saw his mother, who accompanied him to the classroom one Sunday morning. I remember her appearance. She had bright red lipstick plastered on her mouth, and she was wearing a mink stole -- announcing to the whole world that her husband made a lot of money. (Thinking about the way she dressed and carried herself so arrogantly, today she reminds me of a high-priced call girl.) Well, my dad also made a lot of money. But my mother was modestly dressed in the sort of attire that a businesswoman would have worn in those days. She definitely did not "flaunt it," as they say.

As a friend of mine would tell me years later, their son George had a notorious reputation all through high school of being a total jerk with no moral standards whatsoever. Along with one or two other guys, George would harass me in the Sunday morning so-called Bible class right in front of the teacher, who would say nothing about it. This went on for about five years, during which time our Bible classes were not taught by the same man. In other words, this was not an aberration.

Not surprisingly, most of the other teenagers were not kind or spiritual. They were also incredibly materialistic. My best friend, who was also a member of this Methodist church, would tell me years later that when he was in high school, other teenagers in his "Bible class" would look down on him because he did not have his own car!

Anyway, what eventually happened was that by the time I was a sophomore in high school, I decided that I had had enough. I decided to play hooky, something I had never done in any of the public schools I had attended. My parents would go to their so-called Bible class and tell me that they would meet me in the "sanctuary," which was the assembly auditorium. ("Sanctuary," my rear. ) So, I would wander around on the church grounds until the regular assembly.

I soon lost any desire to go to the worship assemblies because I was fed up with the rampant hypocrisy. Fortunately, my parents were not zealous as Methodists. So, when Sunday morning came around, my dad would knock on my bedroom door and tell me that it was time to get up; and I would tell him that I stayed up late and to leave without me. He did not insist that I attend any of the worship assemblies at his Methodist church. He was not going to force me.

In every Sunday morning "Bible class" that I attended at this Methodist church, roll would always be taken in order to keep a record of who was or was not attending. But what is interesting is that (as far as I know) neither of my parents ever received a call from anyone working for the church inquiring as to my prolonged absence. In other words, I was not missed at all. It was around that time that I became an agnostic, until I was taught the gospel when I was 26 years old.

So, Fat Man -- No, I want to call you by your real first name since we are friends, after all, and your full name has become a matter of public record (no thanks to Encyclopedia Dramatica) -- Gerald, I hear your emotional pain about having experienced religious hypocrisy. As I've just recounted, I also had a similar experience myself when I was a teenager. I'm just as angry as anyone else about religious hypocrisy. I should point out, though, that hypocrisy is not limited to the realm of religion.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to bring this post to a close, because time does not permit me to write any more. I will post some more later. I've only just begun to respond to your post; so, as I said before, I hope you will be patient with me as I find time to post, which hopefully will be this Thursday.

[Fat Man]

Good afternoon Earl

Thanks for you're response.

I'm glad you're not mad at me, and I'm glad you understand that I'm not referring to all Christians.

After all, my favorite heroes from historical times like Copernicus, Galileo, Johannes Kepler, and Isaac Newton, they were Christians. They just didn't interpret the Bible literally.

When I refer to "Christards" I'm referring to these television evangelists, these idiots on TV who are getting rich spouting off their right-wing political propaganda and advocating that children be beaten.

OK, when I was a little kid, my mother spanked me a few times. She would pull down my pants and slap my butt with the palm of her hand and it did hurt, and it was embarrassing, but it left no permanent injuries. The only thing that was actually hurt was my dignity.

So, I guess all mothers have spanked their kids a few times.

But I'm most definitely against corporal punishment in our schools both public and parochial, and I resent that my tax dollar supports religious schools where they use corporal punishment.

And if I had kids of my own, I would deeply resent it if any teacher or any school official had laid a hand on any of my kids.

I remember back in 1995 I was over at a friend's house and he had the 700 Club with Pat Robertson on TV and Pat Robertson was advocating corporal punishment, and he held up a "paddle" which was about 3 feet long, 8 inches wide, and over an inch thick!

That was not a paddle. That was a club that is shaped like a paddle, and it could easily break bones. He should have had the number 700 carved into it, because that was his 700 Club.

I called Pat Robertson a scum-bag piece of dog shit, and my so-called friend said "How dare you say such a terrible thing about a man of God!" and I got up and left. I told him to get fucked and I also told him, "and I still say Pat Robertson is a scum-back piece of dog shit!" and I never went back to his home again.

Needless to say, that ended our so-called friendship.

To me, a "paddle" would be sort of like a ping-pong paddle or longer, but no more than an eighth of an inch thick, and not a bone breaking club shaped like a paddle like the one Pat Robertson held up.

That's like calling a baseball bat a twig!

Also, I do not believe that we are born in sin!

When we are born, we are born innocent.

I believe I'm only responsible for my own actions and not for the actions of other people, so I don't believe I was born in sin just because 6000 years ago some woman was tempted into eating a piece of fruit by a talking snake with legs.

And I don't believe that death came into the world because of us.

The fossil record in the earth shows that animals died millions of years before we humans even existed yet. There were big dinosaurs who had long teeth for eating little dinosaurs, so there was death in this world a long long log long long time before we came along.

So, this "born in sin" thing is just a cop-out that is used as a justification to punish innocent children for things that are really not their fault.

For example: children having been punished just for being left-handed as my mother was, or my having been punished for being lousy at sports, never mind that I had a crippled up left knee, it was still considered to be my fault.

Some people just like to invent excuses for inflicting pain on children.

Anyway . . . . .

I'm just glad you know where I'm coming from.