Same as My Name

[idunno]

Don't worry I haven't misinterpreted the title of this forum, and although I might not be welcomed with open arms, here I am...

First and foremost I believe it is my duty to warn you that I am what you guys like to call a "brain-dead" sports fan.

I am not here to offend or insult any of you, really. Out of sheer curiosity I have been perusing your forum for the past couple of nights, and I am intrigued by your ideas and opinions. Although some, I must admit, do shock me, many of you seem to be intelligent and level-headed people, which is why I feel comfortable posting this. (which is a surprise, since I usually don't feel comfortable posting on any message boards). In my opinion intelligent discussion, especially when there are differing opinions, is an important way for us to learn a little bit more about ourselves. I plan on learning a lot during my stay here.

{As my username, and thread title, suggests I am not very good at thinking up names, or titles for that matter, so please bear with me}

I guess the whole reason I am even posting this is because of the first sentence on this website's home page: "Not everyone is a brain-dead sports fan." For some reason, I must admit, I took this statement as a personal insult. I have never thought of myself as "brain-dead" (of course nobody does, not even brain-dead people). I know there are sports fans who are brain-dead (hell, even doctors can be) however I would have never of thought that just by being a fan of sports that that automatically lumps me into this category. I know that's a bit irrational on my part, and I am sure your intent is not to offend, but I feel almost obliged to come here and represent us level-headed sports fans (a group of people you guys don't seem to meet too often). There are thousands of us out there, I guess they're just harder to spot...but we're there.

{I guess this is the right time to interject...if the following is incredibly boring, I apologize, I just want to let you know where I am coming from. Also, if you really hate this post, just ignore it (or insult me) I won't be offended, I understand that I am out of place here.}

I was not always a fan of spectator sports, having played almost every sport there is as a child (and not being very good at any of them) I decided that sports were not worth my time. Although I enjoyed watching the Super Bowl every year, I knew nothing about sports for a good part of my life. It wasn't until I was around eighteen that for whatever reason I began watching World Cup soccer. Since this only occurs every four years I also began watching MLS games (I live in the US). This evolved into becoming a fan of "American" football, or as some have humorously dubbed it "handegg." Hockey and Rugby followed, however for the most part football is what I find most interesting. Ironically this is also the sport you guys seem to abhor the most. Anyway, I will approach this post from the point of view of a football fan. I was hoping to make this post short, however it seems that I have already failed that miserably.

I guess the reason football appeals to me is the strategy. It is definitely the most strategic sport there is (maybe baseball is too, but I can't stand baseball). When "my" team wins (which isn't happening too much right now) I am happy. Not happy for myself as some might think, but happy for them. I think this essay tackles some of these questions and sheds some light on the subject in a way that I cannot. Although it is dated, the first several paragraphs are still relevant in my opinion: http://news.stanford.edu/pr/95/950516Arc5228.html

I must admit that I do own a t-shirt that represents my team, however this is as far as it goes. I have never been to a game, not once. As a youngster athletes were not people that I looked up to, they still aren't but I do generally like some of them. Many of them are decent human beings, but I do believe that their salaries are unnecessarily high. I do not watch Sportscenter and I do not subscribe to Sports Illustrated. Although I occasionally check out sport histories from the library and I do read the sports page in the newspaper, in my opinion watching the games is all I really need. I really enjoy watching games, if it wasn't for them the television would never be turned on at all. I don't watch reality TV, so it's sports and the History channel for me (although with shows like Pawn Stars, History seems to be going down the tubes as well).

Now I'm going to start categorizing:

As a fan I would label myself as "casual." This does not mean that I have limited knowledge about the game, or that I only watch some games, it just means that I am not a complete douche bag. I am not the one rioting when my team loses, (or when they win), I don't spray paint my body and scream like a lunatic. and I certainly do not expect everyone on earth to like the game as much as I do. I am passionate about the sport, but I try to approach it in a level-headed quasi-academic manner. I consider myself a geek in many ways: I am a sports geek, a Jazz geek, and a spaghetti-western geek. Sports do not define me, yet I know I love them dearly.

To be perfectly honest most sports "fans" that many of you criticize aren't really fans at all. (I like to call these people "hardcore fans") Sure, they play the part, but the majority of these people just use sporting events as an excuse to get drunk and go wild. They know almost nothing about the game strategically and they are oblivious to it's rich history and customs. They may have their favorite team all of their lives and they might even be season ticket holders. They even"talk sports" but in reality they are ignorant. The people that many of you have met are not fans in my book, they're just idiots.

Now, "casual fans" (also called "true fans" by some) are not hard to come by. Many fans, especially old school fans, can be considered "casual." They've watched the game for most of their lives, they might or might not have played it at one time or another, but they understand it. They might not go to games, and they might not even see every game on television, but their team is important to them. They are level-headed, intelligent people with varied interests. They are not mindless drones, and although some of them might be "brain-dead", as a general rule many of them are not. I consider myself a "true fan" (dammit that could have been my username, shit).

----

This long-winded probably nonsensical post is here to let you guys know that not all fans are bad. Many of us are very nice, but like always the bad ones spoil everything. In reality we all just want to sit back, relax, and watch the game. This post was also a way for me to define these things to myself. I hope this was interesting and that everything makes sense, and I hope someone replies. I will enjoy discussing this with you guys. I also apologize for my grammar and incorrect punctuation use. I try my best.

Although we definitely have our differences, I hope my stay here is enjoyable for everyone.

Sincerely,
idunno


{Note: Please feel free to discuss what I have written. I really do not want to start any arguments, so I will apologize in advance if this thread takes a turn for the worse. Also feel free to ask questions, discussion is after all the purpose of internet forums}

PS: If you guys ever do end up eradicating sports forever, I'll have nothing to watch on television.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Welcome to the forums idunno.

Based on your post, I have nothing at all against you and I respect the fact that you enjoy watching sports, you seem like an intelligent person. In fact, other than the fact that I don't watch sports, I can agree with pretty much everything you said in your post. You don't seem to like the fans who riot regardless of the outcome of the game or make fools out of themselves during the game, and based on the impression I got from your post, you don't seem like the kind of person who will make someone's life a living hell for being uninterested in sports. There may be members on this forum who will disagree with you, but keep in mind that every member of this forum thinks differently and most of us have views that vary in the extent in which we dislike sports. Members of this site could be described with something similar to a political spectrum perhaps. With political views, there are people who are on the far left of the spectrum, there are left moderates, there are people who are somewhere in the middle, there are right wing moderates, and there are right wing extremists. That's a bit like this site, except here, there are people who completely hate anyone remotely involved with sports whether they watch or participate in them; there are people who have perhaps have bad experiences with sports but they don't necessarily hate sports, they are just perhaps against specific examples of the sports culture; then, on the other hand, you have people who perhaps play sports or watch them, but they aren't outrageous and mindless in the enthusiasm, but they are just curious to know our opinions or perhaps are interested in a civil debate; and finally, you have the occasional person who (at least according to them, this is how they describe themselves, but I'm sure some of them are just trolls) hates anyone who doesn't like sports and will come on this site just to post insults to members of the forum. Now that I think about it, I can't even remember anyone who has been on this site ever since I've been here that would belong in the latter group, but I've definitely seen posts from the past from members such as the infamous samdaman. Well, I suppose I've rambled quite a bit, but I hope you enjoy your stay here.

[Earl]

Greetings, idunno. I donâ??t consider you to be out of place in this forum. Iâ??m willing to have an exchange with anyone who is civil. Iâ??m even willing to have an exchange with anyone who's been angered by this website. Just as long as he refrains from the insults and is willing to talk about it.

I understand why you would take offense at the label â??brain-dead sports fan.â? I certainly donâ??t think all sports fans (or even most of them) are brain-dead. Hey, my father-in-law (who has been the best father-in-law that I possibly could have) is a football fan; and before she graduated, my older daughter went to most (if not all) of her universityâ??s football games. And I donâ??t agree with every single statement that is displayed on the home page.

As you can see, this website is very small; but I think thereâ??s a sense of community that you wonâ??t find at the really large websites. After communicating by means of PM and e-mail, I now consider several members of this forum to be good friends. I even call those who live in the United States frequently long-distance.

Each one of us speaks for himself. Those of us who support this website are quite capable of arguing amongst ourselves. One or more of us may be prone to ranting, but Iâ??ve been told by one of the members of this forum that Iâ??m too much of a gentleman. Actually, Iâ??ve had to work at it. When I started posting at websites in February of 2009, I discovered that I was apt to lose my temper quite easily, since board messaging removes inhibitions that would apply to personal interactions in real life. My online personality has had to evolve over a period of months. One of my New Yearâ??s resolutions is to avoid surfing the web looking for controversial webpages (especially those relating to sports culture) that are bound to make me mad. I mean, whatâ??s the point?

Of course, I donâ??t know how many of my posts youâ??ve actually read; so, I hope I wonâ??t bore you by possibly being repetitive. Iâ??m a happily married father of two daughters. Iâ??m now 60 years old. Although Iâ??ve never had an interest in any sport, Iâ??m not sedentary. For over two years Iâ??ve been working with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program at the 24 Hour Fitness health club nearest my home. Thereâ??s no denying that Iâ??m a confirmed gym rat. I love working out! Ironically, Iâ??m beginning to look like a jock. Two of my closest friends played football in high school, and one of them was even a university team captain.

So, I guess that makes me a moderate. But I still have some strong views, especially about mandatory boysâ?? P.E.

Anyway, thatâ??s all Iâ??ll say now. Again, your presence is welcomed in this forum. If you have any specific questions about what any of us believe or why we feel the way we do, please feel free to ask us individually.

By the way, none of us is suffering under the delusion that sports could ever be eradicated. Years before I discovered this website, there was an abusive one-time poster (username Captain America, possibly indicative of an overinflated ego?) who seemed to actually be afraid that this website posed such a danger to sports. I kid you not.

[Fat Man]

Good evening Idunno:

And welcome to our humble little anti-sports forums.

Well, you do sound intelligent, for a sports fan.

I imagine that you might have read some of my previous messages posted in these forums, and that I'm probably the most radical anti-sports fanatic you may have encountered.

Yes, I do hate sports with a purple passion, and I have even said that I have no use for jocks and that all football players should be "ground up and made into lunch meat to feed the homeless" and a lot of other off the wall stuff.

No, I did not start off hating sports. There was once a time when I did not actually hate sports, but was merely not interested in sports. I simply didn't care about sports one way or the other.

But ironically enough, it was sports itself that eventually taught me how to hate sports.

It's only because you sound reasonably intelligent that I haven't torn you a new one.

OK, I know there are probably thousands of sports fans who are not drooling slack-jawed knuckle dragging morons.

But unfortunately, there are millions who are!!!

So, all of you reasonable and intelligent sports fans are out-numbered a thousand to one because a million is a thousand times a thousand, or a thousand squared.

But you have said, that if sports was eradicated, you would have nothing to watch on TV.

Well, I do have to say, that does sounds really pathetic!

It indicates to me, that you don't have many other interests in life.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the History Channel.

Here lately, it's been mostly crap.

I like it when the History Channel has some programs on Astronomy, and some actual history, but you're right, shows like Pawn Stars is hardly what I would call history. It is really lame!

There are some evenings when there is nothing but crap on Ye Olde Boob Tube!

I have many interests in life. While Astronomy is my most favorite topic, along with science in general, I'm also interested in history, and when it comes to history, I'm a Inquisition buff. It was through reading books on Astronomy, and the history of Astronomy, about how Galileo was persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church, that I began reading a lot of books on the Inquisition.

But I have many other interests.

I like classical music as well as rock, and I enjoy art, and I'm also a political animal. You should go to the OFF TOPIC section of these forums and read some of my topics that I had posted on science, on Evolution, and on politics. You may have to go back a few pages to see the many of my favorite YouTube videos on Evolution.

You see, I have many other interests.

To be interested in only one thing, and very little else, well, I have just have to say, that's really lame, and pathetic. OK?

When I was going to high school back in 1969 (I'm 59 years old) sports, or rather, the over-emphases on sports in our schools pretty much fucked up my life.

Sports in our high schools is directly responsible for the declining quality of education in many of our schools here in the USA. Let me give you a perfect example: When I was in high school, my so-called science teacher was also the schools football coach, and during football season, he was too damn busy coaching his team of pre-frontally lobotomized baboons to be teaching in the class room, so instead, he would set up the movie projector, turn off the lights, and go out the door, leaving us all to sit in the dark watching a bunch of stupid cartoons.

The first time I was suspended from school was because I failed to climb a rope in the gymnasium. Never mind that I had a crippled up left knee because of a car accident I was in at the age of 4, oh no! That was no excuse! And never mind that I was passing all my other academic subjects. No! Sports was more important!

My mother taught me how to read and write before I even started school, and when I was only in the 3rd grade I was already reading at the high school and adult level, and when I was 13 yeas old, I scored 150 points on a standard IQ test.

But when I was in school, sports was more important, and I was often humiliated by the coach in the gymnasium in front of the other students.

So, sports in school really fucked up my life.

I'm sorry, but I still must say, that when you said that if sports was eradicated that you would have nothing to watch on TV, that is so freaking pathetic, and really lame.

And so, I'm going to very gently, and very politely tell you, please, please, pretty please!

Please do take your precious beloved football and shove it up where it's dark and warm, and where the sun never shines!

Will you do that, please!

Thank you!

And do have a happy New Year.

OK?

[Earl]

To quote Rodney King, that philosopher of the ages (Remember him?): Can't we all just get along?

(But I must say that Fat Man offers accurate testimony about the odious nature of mandatory sports-based boys' P.E.)

[recovering_fan]

I guess the reason football appeals to me is the strategy. It is definitely the most strategic sport there is (maybe baseball is too, but I can't stand baseball). When "my" team wins (which isn't happening too much right now) I am happy. Not happy for myself as some might think, but happy for them.

Hello, idunno. Welcome to the forum...

First of all, let me tell you that I obviously don't think you are "brain-dead", any more than I was brain-dead for all those years I followed sports. I personally consider sports-viewing to be a waste of time. Most TV-viewing is, although it is certainly fine in small doses, like any depressant drug. The thing that makes sports-viewing so bad is that sports is on every night.

Now, I actually hold NFL football coaches and audible-calling quarterbacks in high regard as far as their strategic thinking ability is concerned. However, whenever I used to watch a game, I always found myself mainly getting most of my opinions on "strategy" from whomever was commentating the game. Mostly the commentaries that they gave seemed to involve discussion on "clock-management strategies" which I never really found all that challenging to understand. They never talked about the hundreds of player substitutions, or about how some players are better for (or against) run formations and how others are more involved in pass plays. I mean, heck, there wasn't really all that much time to talk about the million facets of strategy that exist in a single football game.

Do you think some football broadcasts go more in depth into the strategy than others? For instance, I always thought that those two guys on Monday Night Football (Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski) went into the X's and O's of the game more than other people, and they always seemed to be competing with each other to show you who was smarter between the two of them. In the end I just felt kind of ... well ... dumb compared with either of them. I couldn't read a defence and tell who was going to block whom, and I didn't know the names of all the plays they were talking about.

In the end, I'd say that, yes, there IS a lot of strategy in certain sports like American football. But unless you invest your entire life in it like the athletes do, then it's a bit hard, I think, to understand and appreciate all that strategy on the fly. That's why I, as a former fan, stopped watching games on my own time. Of course, I'm sure I could sit through a football party if I had to, just as people sit through all kinds of nonsense for friendship's sake.

(The following questions are rhetorical. There is no pressure whatsoever to answer if you'd rather not.)

But ... just out of curiosity, have you ever done any of the following...
* Attended high school football games and discussed plays and drives with other knowledgeable spectators?
* Watched football games with the commentary turned off?
* Participated in pick-up games of flag, touch, or (God forbid) tackle football?
* Competed at Madden '11 with other so-called "sports geeks" or "video game geeks"?

See, those all sound like cool ways of getting involved in the "strategy" of the game. I never really did any of those things, except the first one, and I hardly ever did much of that. I quit watching sports in order to find a hobby where I'd have a more active and participatory role. (In chess, you can read books about strategy, and break down the games of better players slowly at a rate that allows beginners to understand what the masters are thinking and planning.)

Don't worry if you haven't done any of those things I listed. Most fans simply never imagine there could be more to sports than watching on TV.

Cheers,
recovering_fan

PS--As soon you respond to this, you will probably earn the rank of "Sportsman." That is nothing to worry about, I assure you.

[recovering_fan]

If you guys ever do end up eradicating sports forever, I'll have nothing to watch on television.

They won't eradicate sports. Not any time soon !

However, I would ask you to consider whether it's a better deal to pay $25 per month for cable TV or $9 per month for Netflix.

Cheers,
RF

[idunno]

Well, Fat Man you have failed to understand my intent about the television thing. I will not stand to be insulted, therefore I will not respond to any of your ridiculous accusations. I do not care what you are interested in, really. The fact that you feel the need to boast about yourself (for no apparent reason mind you) shows how miserable you truly are.

If you guys ever do end up eradicating sports forever, I'll have nothing to watch on television.

They won't eradicate sports. Not any time soon !

Just a joke, that's all.

Sports, as a hobby, isn't actually the most important to me. First and foremost I am a collector of jazz and blues recordings. And of course above all of that is my family and friends. My hobbies do not control my life anymore than any of yours do. So, maybe I've led you believe that I am a fanatic, I am not.

[i_like_1981]

Hello and welcome to the forum idunno. A happy New Year to you as well. There's not much I can say in response to your original post that a) isn't completely predictable or b) hasn't been written by me a million times before on this forum, so I'll remain brief (by my standards anyway). I believe that the home page of the website is more propaganda-based than anything, and lines such as "Not everyone is a brain-dead sports fan!" are written for dramatic effect and to give solace to the sports haters who find themselves here. The target audience is people who hate sports, and as the home page is the one they will likely see first, it needs to appeal to them strongly so they will be enticed to join. However, to learn the website better, you need to be prepared to look past such statements and read through the many posts in this forum and on the guestbook to discover what we are like as people and not just what we think of sports. Some members are more extreme than others. I'm probably what you'd call a moderate, but I believe in playing fair. By all means, if people come on here with intent to flame, give the shitty comments back to them, but if a more mature, sensible sports fan like yourself comes on for real discussion, then I believe you are entitled to reasonable discussion. I don't bother reasoning with loud-mouthed morons like JIM on the Guestbook but I will be glad to do so with you. However you behave towards me will judge how I react to you. Anyways, my post in a nutshell: a brief glance at the main page will not tell you everything about this website and its members.

Hope to see more of you over the coming days.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

[Skul]

Welcome to the forum, idunno. Or maybe we should call you "id" for short. With a name like yours, it sounds kinda weird to me to call you by your "full name", just like with 1981 or RF here.

Despite the title of the website, for most of us, it's not the sports themselves we are against, but the attitudes and culture that go along with a lot of them. We don't believe that every single sports fan is brain-dead. We're referring to the ones we refer to as "Sports Bores". If you look around, you'll see members with pink names -- these are the abusive sports-focused members who came on solely to ridicule us (mostly by calling us nerds. Yeah, calling nerds "nerds" -- so offensive).

For those who are into sports, yet not abusive, we've got a Sportsman rank for them. How much into them are you? Would that rank suit you or...? It's not to single you out, but with so many anti-sports members, being able to tell people's views on sports at a glance can help.

For the content on the main site, the guy who started the site, Ray, is away doing other things in real life and we haven't seen him for a long while. I think he created this site because, despite being in the RAF, he wasn't considered "partriotic" or "manly" because he had no interest in sports. Never mind he served his country in a worthwhile way and risked his life for it.

But... I'm not entirely clear on the details, so I'm not going to put words in his mouth when he's not here.

Again, welcome.

[Fat Man]

Hey Idunno!

I really don't think you have to worry about sports ever being eradicated. OK?

Sports, as we know it today, was invented over 2500 years ago by wealthy old perverts who liked to have sex with athletic young men and little boys, and anything that's been around for that long is pretty well established and is not going to go away, no matter how much people like me would love to see sports disappear from the face of the earth, we know it's never going to happen despite our deepest and most fondest wishes.

Schools have closed, in some cities public libraries have closed down, residential areas have been bulldozed to make room for parking lots around new sports arenas, etc. etc. so it's a pretty safe bet that sports will be around for a long long long long long time.

The rest of us may one day die in the streets, but you'll still get to have your precious sports. OK?

Civilizations will rise and fall, and sports has often contributed to the fall of civilizations. It was what caused the fall of the ancient Greek civilization and during the fall of the Roman civilization sports was becoming more and more violent and the spectators wanted to see more blood, and of course, they got it.

Bread and circuses anyone?

Naturally, if our present civilization should ever collapse, there will be no more electricity, no more Internet, no more running water, and so, no more TV.

But sports will still be around, even if all you dedicated sports fans have to go to the arenas to attend the games and get there by ox cart, and the night games are lit my oil lamps and torches, and the players wear leather jerseys and helmets made of bronze, football will still be around.

There won't be anymore schools, libraries or hospitals, but there will always be sports arenas and violent sports, and of course, after civilization falls your precious and beloved sports will become even more violent and bloody.

And of course, you'll still have your beer, and it will actually be pretty damn good beer! That's because it will be made by Catholic monks in their breweries. The Catholic Church thrives best when civilizations around them fall, because then, they become the main power.

The Inquisition will be on again, and anybody who objects to their ruling, well, some of us will be subject to torture, and we'll get executed as heretics.

The Pope, the Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests are all real pricks, but the one good thing I can say about the Catholic Church, their monks sure know how to produce an excellent wine and brew a really good beer.

So, I can have that much to look forward to before I die.

And, so what if civilization collapses!!! Dose the Pope care if he has to wipe his ass with corn cobs instead of toilet paper? Hell no!!! As long as he gets to rule the world and have millions of people who he doesn't like put to death, well, he'll be as happy as a little boy in a bath tub full of bull frogs.

And speaking of little boys, the Priests will then feel free to butt-bang our little boys with impunity because we will be powerless and have nothing to say about it.

Oh! But at least, I'll still be able to go down to the corner pub and have some of that really good ale and brewski made by the monks.

Ah! Cheers!

And then, you can pile your family into your ox cart and go to the arena to attend the games, and of course, the games will be more bloody and violent.

So, sports is eternal, it goes on forever, while civilization is a fragile thing, easily disrupted by the barbaric hoards of drooling slack-jawed knuckle-dragging morons.

Sports is like the proverbial bull in the China shop.

Then, there is a pretty good chance that our civilization may not collapse so soon, so you will always have your sports on TV.

Many of my favorite programs will get bumped off the air, and programs pre-empted for a game, but I notice that games are never pre-empted for anything.

There have been many many times when I have wanted to see something on TV, but it got knocked off the air for some stupid football or basketball game.

Oh! But don't worry!

Sports will always be around, and you will always have your precious football on TV.

The rest of us, we can all go straight to fucking Hell.

But as long as you have your football on TV, then I guess that is all that really matters.

So, go watch some football on your booby tube little boy!

I have much better things to do.

See ya! Wouldn't want to be ya!

[Earl]

Come on, Fat Man. Don't be so confrontational. Please? Id sounds like a nice guy to me. We need to make a distinction between the nice guys and ... well, you know ... the SAMDAMANS of this world.

[Earl]

You know, I really liked typing that up. I think I'll do it again: the SAMDAMANS of this world.

[idunno]

Hello and welcome to the forum idunno. I believe that the home page of the website is more propaganda-based than anything, and lines such as "Not everyone is a brain-dead sports fan!" are written for dramatic effect and to give solace to the sports haters who find themselves here. The target audience is people who hate sports, and as the home page is the one they will likely see first, it needs to appeal to them strongly so they will be enticed to join.

Naturally. That statement is the first thing one sees, which is why it was mentioned. It's really what made me post this whole thing.

Thanks, to most of you, for the warm welcome.

To tell you all the truth, it really surprised me that something as simple as sports could be hated so much. I never would of thought that some could feel so strongly about something like this, it would of never have crossed my mind.

Would that rank suit you or...?

I believe it would, don't see why it wouldn't. At this point I am not sure how long I will stay here, but when I do post I hope it does not disrupt anything..

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

To tell you all the truth, it really surprised me that something as simple as sports could be hated so much. I never would of thought that some could feel so strongly about something like this, it would of never have crossed my mind.

Well, the experiences of some members, such as myself, have been unpleasant with sports which makes us have opinions that are against some aspect of sports or something related to it. I can't say I hate sports right now, I'm just not interested, but I'm definitely against sports fanatics who enjoy tormenting people who either lack athletic ability or are simply uninterested in sports, and I'm also against mandatory sports-based PE. To be truthful, I think I wasn't specifically against mandatory sports-based PE until I came here and read some posts from Earl on that subject, but before that, I simply hated PE in general and I thought that PE should be completely removed from the curriculum, because the only PE class I was familiar with sports based PE and I never thought that there could be an alternative Phys-Ed class that isn't based on sports. Now I believe that instead of abolishing PE in general, it should be an elective and non-athletic students such as myself should have been able to take a Phys-Ed class that wasn't focused on sports when I took PE. Now I've passed the point where I'm forced to take sports-based PE and I've been going to the weight room two to three times a week in the morning to work out for the past couple months, and I can confidently say I've made much more progress in the past few months at the weight room than I made in the entire time I spent in sports-based PE class from elementary school to grade nine. I've never been overweight, but I had always had little muscle mass, but that's beginning to change. Now if only I had been offered an alternative PE class when I was taking PE, I wouldn't have been the physically weak kid I always was, and I would have been saved the verbal and physical bullying I went through. I think I can say that I wouldn't have had the same experience with bullying if it weren't for sports, so that is why I, along with several other members, have such opinions on sports.