i_like_1981 wrote:At first I thought I'd keep it a secret, because I knew it would rock the proverbial boat a bit to reveal what an apparently kind, civil opponent was trying to do as we were unaware. But there was the thought immediately after that told me... we've most likely been had here! Andy seemed extremely kind in places where we could read what he was saying, like this website and also the Gridiron Palace thread, but now the secret information has been found, it appears to have been somewhat of a deceptive facade. Sorry if I've upset anyone by showing the slightly nastier side of this initially respectable and polite sportsman, but I genuinely felt apologetic to that guy following my rant against his forum on this website, and now I wonder whether I did the right thing!
No need to apologize!
I for one, I'm very glad that you have revealed to us what you had discovered about Andy.
Sometimes we need to rock the boat and blow the whistle.
Hey! That's what our anti-sports forum is all about.
That should be our slogan.
WE ROCK THE BOAT AND BLOW THE WHISTLE!
As I have said before, Andy is a lying sack of shit!
I don't believe the bullshit he gave us about his going to Africa and donating bicycles to a village so that AIDS patients can peddle 15 miles to get to the nearest clinic.
NO! I think his real motive is to go there to buy children, and then, sell them as sex slaves!
As I have said before, Andy is so two-faced he can sing a duet all by himself!
Andy is a liar by the town clock!!!
I'm fat and sassy! I love to sing & dance & stomp my feet & really rock your world!
All I want to hear from an ex-jock is "Will that be paper or plastic?" After that he can shut the fuck up!
Heah comes da judge! Heah comes da judge! Order in da court 'cuz heah comes da judge!
Fat Man wrote:NO! I think his real motive is to go there to buy children, and then, sell them as sex slaves!
All right, that is enough! You've got to be kidding! Do you realize the enormity of what you're saying, Fat Man? I can't believe I'm reading this! You're falsely accusing a kid of one of the vilest of crimes. You speak only for yourself. You certainly do NOT speak for any other member of this forum. Shame on you! I have half a mind to quit as moderator and leave this forum and this website!
I will have more to say about this tomorrow ...
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." -- Oscar Wilde
Andy has had it real good. Too good! I could not stand him coming in here with his authoritarian attitude, and I could not stand looking at his smug avatar.
In his topic, Here to have a civilized debate, I had posted some links to some YouTube videos about children in boarding schools, children with physical and mental disabilities, being punished with electric shocks when they misbehaved and rewarded with electric shocks for good behavior.
The children in this boarding home were not allowed to associate with each other, were forced to drink hot sauce with vinegar, and were fed mashed potatoes with dried liver powder, and were woke up from their sleep with electric shocks.
Also, in many (not all I'm sure) of our regular schools, children with physical disabilities are often more severely punished than able-bodied children for the same behavior, while athletes are not punished at all.
So, I HATE ANDY!
Wile he is allowed to associate with all his moronic jock buddies and eat T bone and sirloin stakes, and have a nice cold beer, children with disabilities eat mashed potatoes with dried liver powder, and drink vinegar and hot sauce and are tortured with electric shocks!
Andy will never have to worry about anything like that happening to him, BECAUSE HE'S A JOCK!
Not once, did he respond to my links to those YouTube videos.
He ignored those entirely.
So, either he doesn't care, or doesn't give a damn, or . . . . .
. . . maybe he intends to do the same with children when he goes over seas, and that's why he doesn't give a flying fuck!
Maybe he needs to be jolted with electric shocks in the middle of the night while sleeping.
If it's good enough for disabled children, then its good enough for him!
Screw Andy!
He can go to where the woodbine twineth and the ice man venture not!
I'm fat and sassy! I love to sing & dance & stomp my feet & really rock your world!
All I want to hear from an ex-jock is "Will that be paper or plastic?" After that he can shut the fuck up!
Heah comes da judge! Heah comes da judge! Order in da court 'cuz heah comes da judge!
There really wasn't any need for that comment about Andy's intentions of his trip to Africa. Although I doubt his sincere kindness to the members of this forum despite all the abuse was genuine, the evidence for which I've clearly seen on that Tech N9ne thread, I do believe that he is telling the truth about his efforts to help children in Africa and he should be respected for that. To be honest, if he came back on here and read that comment, I'd completely understand if he tried to get people to flame us. The reason I was shocked about finding that thread he did was because he seemed an incredibly nice, faultless guy on this forum and I begin to feel we got cheated a bit by him having seen his rather Samdaman-ish attempts to stir up trouble on here as we were unaware. But I would never accuse him of what you accused him of. Call him a back-stabber and two-faced if you wish, because I really honestly don't think much different of him now, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
I agree with all the comments you've made in this topic of yours, i_like_1981. If I had discovered that webpage myself, I would have posted a link to it because of its relevance to the other currently active members of this forum. Although I haven't passed judgement on Andy, I've had no problem with the other members drawing their own conclusions. You may have noticed that the last line of my signature is now missing. I deleted it not because I've judged Andy to be two-faced, but out of deference to the other members of this forum (with particular deference to you, i_like_1981).
I don't have much of a problem with Fat Man making absurd generalizations about groups of people. After all, this website is part rant board. I'm referring to comments such as -- and I'm not quoting verbatim here -- "Republicans have sex with barnyard animals" or "Most professional football players (as opposed to some or a few) are rapists." He has the right to make dopey comments, as do the rest of us; and we all make them. (By the way, Mrs. Earl and I now have a running joke about the words "barnyard animals." If either one of us says those words in the presence of the other, laughter will ensue. I do declare that if I live to be 105 years old, I'll at least smile to myself whenever I hear those words.)
What I find to be particularly offensive, though, is when an extremely serious and inflammatory charge is tossed about so trivially as if it were just a routine insult (never mind the implications of being sued for libel). Communism posed a very serious threat to the West during the Cold War. The goal of this worldwide movement (which has claimed the lives of 100 million human beings since Lenin overthrew the democratic provisional government of Russia in 1917) was to enslave us all. Communist infiltration and subversion was a reality. The problem in the United States during the dark days when country after country was falling to the Communists was that innocent people began to be falsely accused of being Communists. Many times conservatives used this wrongful tactic to destroy their democratic political opponents, such as liberal Democrats. Fat Man's trivial use of the charge of selling children reminds me of these conservatives.
I speak from the standpoint of personal experience. I have a sister seven years old than I who was a college student in the first half of the 1960s. As you know, when my sister started attending college in the fall of 1961, racial discrimination against black Americans was still widely practiced in the United States. My sister was a member of a sorority that happened to have racist by-laws. (Just to be sure that I don't give the wrong impression about her, my sister was not a social climber. She derided cliques. She also wasn't a sports fan, although she viewed school athletes as individuals and included a few of them among her friends.) She had a Jewish girlfriend whom she wanted to be able to join her sorority, which excluded both Jews and blacks. So, my sister and another friend of hers who was also a member of her sorority launched a nationwide petition to the national headquarters of their sorority urging them to drop their racist by-laws. My sister also once participated in a peaceful demonstration against a large company in the city where her college was located because of their "whites only" hiring policy. Incidentally, this city is in Colorado, not the Deep South.
There is an ultraconservative group in the United States called the John Birch Society that has had the bad habit of making completely absurd charges against individuals with whom they disagree politically. I mean falsely accusing them of being Communists. When they heard about my sister's activities (for which she should have been commended), a representative of the branch of the John Birch Society in Houston, Texas, held a press conference in which he wrongfully denounced my sister as being a Communist. She has always been very liberal politically, socially, and culturally; but like all other decent human beings, she hates dictatorships of all kinds. The other coed who had launched the petition heard of the press conference. She was crying when she told my sister, who just laughed and said, "I'm proud to be a Communist!" Today she still laughs about it, but I don't laugh about it. If she had been ten years older and this had happened to her during the hysteria of the Joe McCarthy period, her chances of getting a decent job would have been ruined.
What offended me about Fat Man's comment was not that it was directed against a group of people, but because it was directed against an individual. He was not even posting here. If Samdaman were still posting at this website with all of his invective and Fat Man or anyone else made this vile charge of selling children against him, I still would object.
I have some observations of my own (and I'm referring to facts, not opinions) about Andy's dealings with this website that I will share with the readers of this thread in another post later today, perhaps (that is, if I have time). Since I don't know the guy personally, I've made no judgment about Andy at this point.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." -- Oscar Wilde
Well, I for one would love to rip Andy a new one and serve his bitch ass up on a silver platter!
I feel in an arrogant mood tonight.
Today, I went out shopping. It was unusually cold. We had an overnight low of -2 degrees and today's high was only 20 degrees, so it was as cold as a witches tit in a brass brazier, and you could hear the balls falling off the brass monkeys all over town.
As I was out shopping, I bought the usual groceries but I bought some really really really dark beer, actually, a dark ale.
So, I feel good about ripping Andy a new one!
And to celebrate, I'm drinking an ARROGANT BASTARD DARK ALE!
YEAH! THIS BEER IS A SON OF A BITCH!
AND I LOVE IT!
I'm fat and sassy! I love to sing & dance & stomp my feet & really rock your world!
All I want to hear from an ex-jock is "Will that be paper or plastic?" After that he can shut the fuck up!
Heah comes da judge! Heah comes da judge! Order in da court 'cuz heah comes da judge!
Well, I've been following thread since it was started but haven't posted in it until now. But now, even though I am still somewhat strained for time and still have homework today, I believe it is time to post due to what has occurred in this thread.
In response to the boxing forum, what they said (to my recollection of what I read a few days ago, I'm not able to check back on that forum at the time) was fairly immature and the comment about sports being the only thing worth going to school for, well that's simply pathetic. I wonder where that person is in life at this point, I'm sure he hasn't gotten very far unless he is a very lucky man, but then again, I can't speak for him. Also, while this might be irrelevant to the thread, I think this is the best place to bring this up at the time as I don't have the time to start a new thread right now. After reading the posts on that boxing forum a few days ago, I was curious about the extent of brain damage in boxing. Naturally, the first place I looked was Wikipedia, so I went on Wikipedia's boxing article and scrolled to the section on boxing's health effects to my recollection. Apparently, multiple national medical associations in several countries have made suggestions to the government to completely ban the sport of boxing. Now for the moment, I'll prevent myself from saying any silly comments expressing my joy of the possibility that a sport may be banned. But on a serious note, this is a perfect display of how this sport is completely ridiculous and dangerous, when major health organizations are completely advocating the ban of a sport, then there is obviously something seriously wrong with that sport. If you are interested, just go on Wikipedia's boxing page and find the section that has a title somewhat related to health which I can't specifically remember. There should be a mention of these organizations suggesting the ban, and if you click on the superscripts at the end of each statement on these medical associations, then it should bring you to the references of the article where there should be a link to each medical association's webpage. I might post a link for your convenience sometime later if I have time.
Now, for this part of my post, I'll discuss my initial reaction to Andy's posts at that forum, and I'll leave out any opinions on the discussion that has taken place over here on that subject for now, as I'll address the posts in this thread later on in this post. I was not around when Andy was at this site, however I did read over all of Andy's thread and am familiar with his posts here as well as the members of this page's responses to him. When I read Andy's thread a while back, he seemed like a good person and I had nothing at all against him. He did charity work and if I remember correctly, I think he said he actually acted against a bully who was picking on another student. I also did not really like how many people reacted to Andy's presence, here. I thought he was treated unfairly and thought the people insulted him or doubted the legitimacy of Andy's claims were being unreasonable. But when I saw that Andy's posts at that forum, I felt fairly disappointed in Andy. Sure, he may have been offended by what he initially saw when he first saw this site, but his reaction of telling others to attack the site, and even referring to us as "fags", that was quite immature. However, while I do think a bit less of Andy, I still don't doubt Andy's claims of charity work or any other good deeds. I think my view on him is still generally positive.
Now I wish to discuss the posts in this thread in response to what everyone has seen of Andy's posts. First of all, while I'm pretty sure we all agree that it definitely was Andy, just in case, I should point out that I can definitely see the resemblance of the picture that Andy had on the other forum and the picture that Andy used here as an avatar, even when the helmet blocks most of what we can see of his face. But most importantly, I'd like to focus on one of Fat Man's more recent posts in this thread. Whether or not you choose to believe Andy's claims of charity work, I don't really care. But when you accuse him of selling African children as sex slaves, that just takes it way too far, and it was wrong of you to say that. Even if, as you said later, you were kidding. That's not something that you should joke about, and I would think that you of all people would recognize that. It appears to me that this new information we've received on Andy has been used as an excuse to bash Andy even more when in reality, the person's opinion on Andy hasn't changed the slightest bit and it is simply seen as an opportunity to criticize him without seeming unreasonable.
"Mensa membership conceding, tell my why and how are all the stupid people breeding?" - The Idiots Are Taking Over - NOFX
"Basis of change: educate - derived from discussion, not hate, not myth, not muscle, not etiquette" - Hate, Myth, Muscle, Etiquette - Propagandhi
"We need to teach our kids that it's not just the winner of the Superbowl who deserves to be celebrated, but the winner of the science fair" - Barack Obama
Andy gets to eat T bone and sirloin stakes while handicapped children in boarding homes only get to eat mashed potatoes with dried liver powder.
Andy gets to drink beer and wine while handicapped children in boarding homes are forced to drink vinegar and hot sauce.
Andy gets to have a peaceful night's sleep while handicapped children in boarding homes a woke up in the middle of the night with electric shocks, and are administered electric shocks randomly through out the day.
Andy has it real good, because he's a jock, and our society falls on it's collective ass for jocks while disposing of handicapped children like garbage.
That's why I hate Andy's guts!
I'm fat and sassy! I love to sing & dance & stomp my feet & really rock your world!
All I want to hear from an ex-jock is "Will that be paper or plastic?" After that he can shut the fuck up!
Heah comes da judge! Heah comes da judge! Order in da court 'cuz heah comes da judge!
HugeFanOfBadReligion wrote:In response to the boxing forum, what they said (to my recollection of what I read a few days ago, I'm not able to check back on that forum at the time) was fairly immature and the comment about sports being the only thing worth going to school for, well that's simply pathetic. I wonder where that person is in life at this point...
Yes, that sporting gent's views on school were a bit extreme, weren't they?
Fat Man has been banned for 24 hours and has been issued a warning. That kind of post doesn't put us in a good light at all. Let this be a message to anyone else who thinks of posting something like that.
Fat Man, I'm surprised and disappointed in you. I didn't think you would make that kind of remark...
Earl wrote:I don't have much of a problem with Fat Man making absurd generalizations about groups of people....
What I find to be particularly offensive, though, is when an extremely serious and inflammatory charge is tossed about so trivially as if it were just a routine insult (never mind the implications of being sued...).
For what it's worth, I take the same view as you (and HugeFan, and i_like_1981) on what Fat Man said.
As far as that last parenthetical comment of yours goes, I mind the implications of it very much--so much so, in fact, that I think you should consider deleting any and all posts where Fat Man makes comments like that. They are, to put it simply, dangerous, as well as vicious.
Fat Man has a rough life, and I realise he feels he has the right to let out the aggression, but there are lines one does not cross.
Well, hopefully I won't get banned for this, but here goes:
To Earl and others:
I never saw Fat Man's comment about Andy buying and selling children as anything more than hyberbole and ranting. Certainly I didn't see it as any kind of formal legal accusation or anything like that. Even as a fairly new member to the forum, in perusing Fat Man's past postings, I've concluded that it's in his nature to go off on rants like that. And he did preface his remark with "I think.." -- in other words, just his opinion, not a statement of proven fact.
As far as being sued for libel, etc., I doubt anyone would have a case, since we don't use real or full names as members on here, and it'd be difficult to prove someone was being targeted. In any event, comments made clearly in jest or satirically can't be held as libel, I don't believe.
I once was in a doctor's office that had a sign posted that said, "Unattended children will be sold as slaves." Did that mean the doctor was actually involved with a child slave trade? Of course not -- it was simply a snide comment to get parents to make their kids behave.
Earl, I do hope, though, that you'll reconsider leaving the site. I have enjoyed your commentary so far -- you seem to be a voice of reason, and I hope reason can prevail in this case as well.
ChrisOH wrote:Well, hopefully I won't get banned for this...
Oh don't worry, I think it's close to impossible for a sports-hater to get permanently banned from this site.
There was a kid named Sergey who I think deliberately trolled people, and I don't think the moderators ever banned him. Fat Man has done some, well, "interesting" stuff at this site, over the course of two years, and I think this is the first time they've suspended him.
He'll be back, don't worry!
I just hope that when he does come back, he realises there are lines not to cross.
(For the record, I had NOTHING to do with this ban, despite what happened last December between Fat Man and me.)
Hi, ChrisOH. Thank you very much for the compliment. You certainly need not worry about being banned. There's plenty of room for dissent. We represent a wide range of views. Besides, you're a valued member.
Your hyperbole point is well taken, and there's a lot of truth to it. My problem is that I tend to be literal-minded. The problem Fat Man has is that he has a tendency to be rude to those who differ from him. He and I are even friends. I've been calling him long-distance for some time. I just wish he would learn that not showing respect to people drives them away.
You don't need to worry about him. Twenty four hours from now, he will be posting again, I'm sure.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." -- Oscar Wilde
I'm fat and sassy! I love to sing & dance & stomp my feet & really rock your world!
