Why can't you guys

[Polite24]

accept sports for what they are? Sure, you have your small minority of people who take them too seriously, but like SportsGuy92 said, you have that with any interest or hobby. Is the guy at work who's trying to talk sports with you really a big deal, or is it just a minor annoyance? Was that person giving you a hard time about not liking sports really being mean, or was it meant jokingly?

From what I've gathered in my time posting here, here's your guys main gripes about sports.

-They promote cliques, and bullying
Usually, sports and the popular people kind of go hand in hand. This isn't always the case, but I recognize that this does happen. However, in my opinion cliques would exist either way, with or without sports. People are just different from one another, and you're going to have your popular people and not so popular people. Simple as that.

-They take money away from things that are more important
This is perhaps the most legit gripe. Big new stadiums do cost taxpayer money, no way around it. However, they can generate a lot of money and revenue for the city. On gameday's, bars around the stadium are absolutely packed, which brings in a lot of money for those bars. Just some things to think about. In my opinion things do even out with sports in the long run, especially considering all the jobs that they provide.

-They take away money from schools
This is one I find laughable. From everything I've ever known, athletic departments at high schools and colleges fund themselves. So if there was no sports team, that money would have never been there anyway.

-They are shoved down our throat
Really? Is it that big of a deal that sports are huge and talked about it a lot? On your big channels like ABC, NBC, and CBS, besides when a game is one sports are hardly talked about besides a 3 minute segment on the local news. With today's TV, you have plenty of options and plenty of ways to get away from sports. You guys sound really petty and bitchy when you complain about that, especially when there are much more serious things going on in the world then an athletic event interrupting your favorite TV show. Get the fuck over it.

This is all I got for now. Also keep in mind that sports for kids are a constructive thing to do and keep you out of trouble. Most of the kids I know that stayed in sports never turned into a trouble maker or bad kid, it was the other way around.

Discuss.

[Sergey]

The Sportsguy who said he's confused why we like some of our hobbies over sports... What an idiot. Now you're agreeing with him... I thought you were smarter than that.

[Sergey]

Did you say a small minority? No, it's big you ignorant moron.

[SportsGuy92]

accept sports for what they are? Sure, you have your small minority of people who take them too seriously, but like SportsGuy92 said, you have that with any interest or hobby. Is the guy at work who's trying to talk sports with you really a big deal, or is it just a minor annoyance? Was that person giving you a hard time about not liking sports really being mean, or was it meant jokingly?

From what I've gathered in my time posting here, here's your guys main gripes about sports.

-They promote cliques, and bullying
Usually, sports and the popular people kind of go hand in hand. This isn't always the case, but I recognize that this does happen. However, in my opinion cliques would exist either way, with or without sports. People are just different from one another, and you're going to have your popular people and not so popular people. Simple as that.

-They take money away from things that are more important
This is perhaps the most legit gripe. Big new stadiums do cost taxpayer money, no way around it. However, they can generate a lot of money and revenue for the city. On gameday's, bars around the stadium are absolutely packed, which brings in a lot of money for those bars. Just some things to think about. In my opinion things do even out with sports in the long run, especially considering all the jobs that they provide.

-They take away money from schools
This is one I find laughable. From everything I've ever known, athletic departments at high schools and colleges fund themselves. So if there was no sports team, that money would have never been there anyway.

-They are shoved down our throat
Really? Is it that big of a deal that sports are huge and talked about it a lot? On your big channels like ABC, NBC, and CBS, besides when a game is one sports are hardly talked about besides a 3 minute segment on the local news. With today's TV, you have plenty of options and plenty of ways to get away from sports. You guys sound really petty and bitchy when you complain about that, especially when there are much more serious things going on in the world then an athletic event interrupting your favorite TV show. Get the fuck over it.

This is all I got for now. Also keep in mind that sports for kids are a constructive thing to do and keep you out of trouble. Most of the kids I know that stayed in sports never turned into a trouble maker or bad kid, it was the other way around.

Discuss.

Polite24, these are some good points.

About sports and cliques, most people here always blame clique issues in schools on sports. Have any of you ever seen the movie Mean Girls? The clique in that movie had nothing to do with sports. Also, I've heard a lot of you complain that you have to pay for sports channels that you'll never watch when buying cable or satellite TV, but there are also a lot of channels the typical ESPN/Fox Sports watcher has no use for either.

[Sergey]

When our channels are filled with sports bullshit... how is that fair. You like sports, you pay to watch it.

[Ray]

accept sports for what they are? Sure, you have your small minority of people who take them too seriously, but like SportsGuy92 said, you have that with any interest or hobby. Is the guy at work who's trying to talk sports with you really a big deal, or is it just a minor annoyance? Was that person giving you a hard time about not liking sports really being mean, or was it meant jokingly?

Polite24, these are some good points.

About sports and cliques, most people here always blame clique issues in schools on sports. Have any of you ever seen the movie Mean Girls? The clique in that movie had nothing to do with sports. Also, I've heard a lot of you complain that you have to pay for sports channels that you'll never watch when buying cable or satellite TV, but there are also a lot of channels the typical ESPN/Fox Sports watcher has no use for either.

BOTH of you losers are towering examples of the inflexible attitudes that sports fans have. You INSIST that we admit sports are great and that they have value. But you refuse to allow me to have my own and opposite opinion. And not only do you refuse to allow my point of view, you follow me home and corner me in my sanctuary, the only space on earth where sports aren't allowed and hound me here too. Congratulations. You physically embody what most of us cannot stand. Your need to force your beliefs on perfect strangers is what makes you an obnoxious sports fan and is why "I can't accept sports for what they are" --YOU WON'T LET ME!! I'm glad you two morons found each other. Why don't you two take this off line and um.. NEVER COME BACK!!

[SportsGuy92]

accept sports for what they are? Sure, you have your small minority of people who take them too seriously, but like SportsGuy92 said, you have that with any interest or hobby. Is the guy at work who's trying to talk sports with you really a big deal, or is it just a minor annoyance? Was that person giving you a hard time about not liking sports really being mean, or was it meant jokingly?

Polite24, these are some good points.

About sports and cliques, most people here always blame clique issues in schools on sports. Have any of you ever seen the movie Mean Girls? The clique in that movie had nothing to do with sports. Also, I've heard a lot of you complain that you have to pay for sports channels that you'll never watch when buying cable or satellite TV, but there are also a lot of channels the typical ESPN/Fox Sports watcher has no use for either.

BOTH of you losers are towering examples of the inflexible attitudes that sports fans have. You INSIST that we admit sports are great and that they have value. But you refuse to allow me to have my own and opposite opinion. And not only do you refuse to allow my point of view, you follow me home and corner me in my sanctuary, the only space on earth where sports aren't allowed and hound me here too. Congratulations. You physically embody what most of us cannot stand. Your need to force your beliefs on perfect strangers is what makes you an obnoxious sports fan and is why "I can't accept sports for what they are" --YOU WON'T LET ME!! I'm glad you two morons found each other. Why don't you two take this off line and um.. NEVER COME BACK!!

I don't think there is anything wrong with your beliefs towards sports, and I know I won't be able to change them. The reason why I'm on here is to show you guys that there are benefits to sports since most of you believe they are evil or dangerous to society.

[Sergey]

THEY ARE!

[Earl]

Regarding cliques and popularity, yes, I admit that students frequently will associate with those who share their interests; but cliques have to do with power over others. I don't see that band students, drama students, members of the choir, chemistry students, and so on have quite as much disdain for other students at their high schools as do seeminly many athletes in certain sports. Do many physics students, for example, throw food at band members or cut in line in front of other students as if they feel they're entitled? How many high-school and college football players have nonathlete friends outside of football, instead of just keeping to themselves and socializing with only supporters of the football team? And as far as popularity goes (which seems to be the overriding goal of such inclusive guys as "Harold" in the "Letters 2009" column), when you have graduated from high school and you start hearing over the years what classmates of yours have done, you will learn that popularity in high school is no indication of how successful a teenager will be when he is an adult or what kind of a person he will be. Earlier today a friend of mine learned at his high-school class' 40th reunion that one of the most popular kids of his class, a surfer who was very popular with the girls, is now in prison serving time as a convicted murderer. High-school social life is shallow. Many of the social relationships you now enjoy in high school will not survive over the years.

[Earl]

Most of the kids I know that stayed in sports never turned into a trouble maker or bad kid, it was the other way around.

Since you're a nice guy, I don't doubt that what you say has been your own personal experience; but each of us on the other side has had rather different experiences. Nothing will ever change that. What I'm about to say is definitely not a criticism of you, but I'll say it anyway. I get sick and tired of all those who say that nonathletes are inferior to athletes. I don't believe that (or vice versa). There have been many men of courage and other men who have made substantial contributions to society who never had an interest in sports. Such a truth doesn't seem to be easily received by many players and coaches in a particular sport or two.

... I've heard a lot of you complain that you have to pay for sports channels that you'll never watch when buying cable or satellite TV, but there are also a lot of channels the typical ESPN/Fox Sports watcher has no use for either.

I will agree with you and SportsGuy92 on this point. As a Christian I have no use for MTV with its promotion of rebellion and sexual immorality, but it's still part of the basic cable package. As a customer I don't have the option to drop MTV and not pay for it. Anyone who pays for a cable TV service will also have to pay for cable channels they may have no interest in or may even detest.

[Earl]

I recall you once saying in an earlier post that you felt like we looked down on you for being an athlete. At least that's what I remember you writing. I just now tried to find that post, but failed. There is a very real sense in which I have never looked down on any football player, even those whom I personally knew were jerks. I think that I speak for most of the others on my side when I say that I have always respected athletic achievement. I feel sorry for any athlete who has been seriously injured in a sport, as my sister did in college whenever she saw hockey players come to class with a leg in a cast, an arm in a sling, or some other visible injury. A few of them felt unappreciated by some of their nonathletic classmates. (My sister was not a sports fan, but she still felt sorry for them.) I know that there is a lot of work and dedication involved in developing athletic prowess. But this is not unique to sports. It isn't easy to master a science such as physics or chemistry to the degree that "nerds" have done. (I know that from my own experience.) At the risk of possibly offending some of the members on my side, I even admire what football players have achieved; but when they show an arrogant attitude, they lose my respect because respect is a two-way street. I certainly have never viewed football players as being inferior.

You ask us why we can't accept sports for what they are. I don't accept wrongdoing in the name of sports or any of the excesses, but I'll tell you what I do accept. I accept the love of sports that motivates athletes to participate in them. I accept the enthusiasm of sports fans, as long as they respect the preferences of those whom they know do not share their enthusiasm. As I've said before, if I had a teenage son who wanted to play football in high school, I would support him because he would bring his own morals to the game (such as Tim Tebow has) and would not let others encourage him to do wrong.

[SportsGuy92]

Also, why can't you guys believe that when an athlete does something good, that they don't have any kind of other motivation? It's like, an athlete who does charity work can't possibly actually care about helping others, they just want to look like they do. Or an athlete who joins the military, they can't actually be wanting to serve their country, they're just a glory seeker.

[SportsGuy92]

accept sports for what they are? Sure, you have your small minority of people who take them too seriously, but like SportsGuy92 said, you have that with any interest or hobby. Is the guy at work who's trying to talk sports with you really a big deal, or is it just a minor annoyance? Was that person giving you a hard time about not liking sports really being mean, or was it meant jokingly?

Polite24, these are some good points.

About sports and cliques, most people here always blame clique issues in schools on sports. Have any of you ever seen the movie Mean Girls? The clique in that movie had nothing to do with sports. Also, I've heard a lot of you complain that you have to pay for sports channels that you'll never watch when buying cable or satellite TV, but there are also a lot of channels the typical ESPN/Fox Sports watcher has no use for either.

BOTH of you losers are towering examples of the inflexible attitudes that sports fans have. You INSIST that we admit sports are great and that they have value. But you refuse to allow me to have my own and opposite opinion. And not only do you refuse to allow my point of view, you follow me home and corner me in my sanctuary, the only space on earth where sports aren't allowed and hound me here too. Congratulations. You physically embody what most of us cannot stand. Your need to force your beliefs on perfect strangers is what makes you an obnoxious sports fan and is why "I can't accept sports for what they are" --YOU WON'T LET ME!! I'm glad you two morons found each other. Why don't you two take this off line and um.. NEVER COME BACK!!

If the presence of me, Polite24, or any other sports fans angers you that much, maybe this forum should be divided into two. In one, sports fans would be allowed in to have debates on sports, in the other, there would be no sports fans allowed so you guys can discuss sports without any interference.

[SportsGuy92]

One reason why a lot of people on here are here is because they were bullied growing up because they didn't like sports. This bullying, for many of you, often involved being called homophobic insults like "gay" or "faggot". But then you guys make certain sports fans on here wear the "gay" jersey as their avatar. Do you people really think you're open minded or above the bullies you grew up with?

[Skul]

If the presence of me, Polite24, or any other sports fans angers you that much, maybe this forum should be divided into two. In one, sports fans would be allowed in to have debates on sports, in the other, there would be no sports fans allowed so you guys can discuss sports without any interference.

Sports fans would still post on this "no-sports-fans" forum, anyway. Also, there are a plethora of sports forums out there for you to have debates on sports, so why don't you go to one of them? This website, this little website in the corner of the web, is the only place I know of where we can be sure we won't get berated at for having a dislike, or -- in some cases -- a complete hatred for sports. Well, except from sports bores, of course.

One reason why a lot of people on here are here is because they were bullied growing up because they didn't like sports. This bullying, for many of you, often involved being called homophobic insults like "gay" or "faggot". But then you guys make certain sports fans on here wear the "gay" jersey as their avatar. Do you people really think you're open minded or above the bullies you grew up with?

I'd call it "ironic justice". And besides, it's only certain sports bores who show an exceptional level of stupidity and ignorance who get the special Jersey of Shame as their avatar.